[00:00:21] Speaker A: The Tudor History and Travel show is a podcast that brings Tudor history to life by exploring Tudor places and artefacts in the flesh.
You will be travelling through time with Sarah Morris, the Tudor travel guide, uncovering the stories behind some of the most amazing Tudor locations and objects in the uk.
Because when you visit a Tudor building, it is only time and not space which separates you from the past.
And now, over to your host, Sarah Morris.
Hello, my friends. You are very welcome to this episode of the Tudor History and Travel Show.
Well, we'll come on to the subject of today's episode in a moment, but first I have a little bit of housekeeping.
Last month over at Simply Tudor Tours, we completed our second successful tour. Anne and Elizabeth. Mother, daughter, traitors, Queens. We had Ann a fantastic time with a wonderful group of Tudor history lovers from around the world.
And you might be interested to know that, well, sadly, due to unforeseen circumstances, one of our tour participants for our September tour, the Rise and Fall of Amberlynn, has had to pull out. And so we have an unexpected vacancy on that tour.
So if you're thinking of planning a last minute holiday and you'd love to indulge love of Tudor history, then you might want to think about joining us. And if you are interested, all you need to do is email
[email protected] Information on the tour itinerary can be found on our website and I'll make sure that I include a link directly to that page in the description associated with this podcast.
Right, okay, well, let's move on.
The focus of this episode is of course on the wonderful Hatfield House, both the old palace of Hatfield and also to a degree, some of the treasures associated with Elizabeth I that are held within the later Jacobean mansion.
Now, as ever, there is a show notes page associated with the podcast.
This is in fact combined with an earlier blog that I wrote on Hatfield.
I refer to Hatfield often as the cradle of the Elizabethan age because that is where Elizabeth grew up, spent much of her time and was one of her favourite properties. And of course it was a Hatfield that Elizabeth found out that she had finally acceded to the throne of England on the death of her half sister Mary.
We'll be hearing all about the history of the old palace and the later Jacobean mansion built by one of the Cecils. So of course associated with Elizabeth I.
And our expert guide today is Georgina Shaw, who is the perfect guide to be taking us around and uncovering the delights of the history of this incredible and historic building, which is so important to Tudor lovers around the world.
Check out the Show Notes page for some additional images, which we captured on tour.
But apart from that, I'm delighted to finally, because this is one I've had on my list to cover on this podcast for quite some time, I'm delighted finally to be able to take us time traveling back to the old palace of Hatfield. So let's get going.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: Welcome, my friends, to this month's episode of our Travels in Time. Oh, my goodness. Do you join me on the most glorious sunny day? There's just beautiful blue sky stretching above my head and I am delighted to be visiting a place. Actually, I don't think I've been here in nearly a decade and I'm already impressed by what I'm seeing and I can't wait to share it with you.
Yes, I am at Hatfield House now. If you follow the Tudor travel guide, you will know that I get to all sorts of places. Ruined abbeys, modest manor houses, museums and art galleries. But today, I think we're at one of the big places on the Tudor itinerary for any Tudor history lover. I am at Hatfield, of course. I consider it to be the cradle of the Elizabethan age, a place that was much beloved to Elizabeth I when she was a princess. And I've come to explore the history of the place, of course, in particular its association with the aforementioned Tudor princess.
Now, as ever, we have a guide to help us, and I am absolutely delighted to introduce Georgina Shaw. Hi, Georgina.
[00:05:27] Speaker C: Hello, Sarah. Thanks for having me.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: Oh, we're in for a cracker today, my friends, because Georgina is just so full of stories and enthusiasm for Hatfield. But before we get into that, please do introduce yourself.
[00:05:40] Speaker C: Yes, hi, I am Georgina. I originally started working here five years ago as a house guide, following in the footsteps of my grandmother, who is currently still a house guide here. And now I work as an operations assistant in the visitor operations team. And we work everything to do with the house opening, the gardens opening, all of the festivals, the events. Anything that you see that involves somebody visiting, I probably have something to do with it. And it's set up so an amazing place to work.
It gets me every time. And so I'm really excited to take you around because, like you said, head full of stories, it's got to come out somewhere. So can't wait to tell you.
[00:06:18] Speaker B: That's fantastic. And you were saying you're trained in dramatics as well?
[00:06:22] Speaker C: I am. I did go to drama school, so this is probably a chance to utilize my skills quite, quite well.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: Well, I'M so looking forward to that.
There are people around. There are things going on around here today.
So you may well hear voices and noises of the estate running and things going on in the adjacent village. But as ever, our wonderful sound man Chris, will do his best to make sure you get the best possible audio experience.
[00:06:48] Speaker C: I've heard good things.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: He's a magician. He absolutely is. And I just wanted to give a little shout out to Chris actually, because he works hard in the background here. While it sounds like I'm having all the fun, Chris is busy making sure that all the audio levels are perfect. So, Georgina, let's start at the beginning.
[00:07:04] Speaker C: A very good place to start indeed.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: So the song goes.
I can see your musical back theatre.
[00:07:10] Speaker C: Background is always here.
[00:07:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it's already arrived. Excellent.
[00:07:13] Speaker C: So.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: So why.
What do we know of the very first building here? Who built Hatfield Old palace and why?
[00:07:23] Speaker C: I believe that the original settlement, which was probably a couple of wooden beams in the shape of a stable, actually go all the way back to the Doomsday Book. But the building that we're currently looking at and all of the adjacent red brick buildings are original to about 1485, which would have been built by the Bishop of Ely.
And essentially before it was an official palace, it would have been more like a school for bishops, I think is the. The way of talking about it. Obviously it wouldn't have been a religious building itself because we've got St. Ethelreda's Church right next door. So not a religious building in its own entirety, but again, housed some very important religious people, including the Bishop of Ely himself. So that was John Morton who built it all the way back.
[00:08:07] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's interesting. 1485, that's a year to contend with in the Tudor history calendar. Of course, it was as they were fighting out in Bosworth, Hatfield palace was being raised up by John Morton, a really important character in the whole story of Henry vii.
Some people might think Bishop of Ely. Ely's nowhere near Hatfield. What on earth is he doing building a palace here?
Why?
[00:08:37] Speaker C: I don't know fully the reason, but I do know that a lot of this is going to happen quite often in this podcast in which names and places don't match up with each other. For example, I think a Salisbury is going to crop up at some point, and we're nowhere near Salisbury either.
So I'm assuming it's probably something to do with a vacant title that they just get given, but not 100%. On the. On the origins of that, you might know more than Me?
[00:09:02] Speaker B: Well, I'm wondering whether it's got something to do with the Great North Road which of course runs right past Hatfield. Because in the medieval period bishops and archbishops served at courts and in parliament and they needed to come and go from London to. From their Bishop Frick. So I'm thinking Buckton palace as well, I think was owned by the bishops of Lincoln and they had these staging houses absolutely. Along the main route from London to where they were. So I'm wondering whether this was a nice color convenient spot not too far away from London but in some nice fresh air and quite close to the main road.
[00:09:42] Speaker C: Absolutely. And obviously where we are right now on fourth street is the original Great North Road. So this would have traveled directly from the front of the palace all the way straight in one nice long line to London. I didn't realize. Exactly right here.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: Oh, that's fantastic. So let's give a little description of actually where we're standing as in on four streets. Because I think most people now probably encounter Hatfield as the, the new town.
Of course the clues in the name. It's a new town there is a beautiful old part to 4th Street. So can you describe where we're standing at the moment?
[00:10:17] Speaker C: Yeah. So like I said, 4th street being the original Great North Road is the first road. Hence most towns have a 4th street being the first road. And then it leads all the way down behind us into Old Hatfield which is still full of the. The beautiful buildings that date all the way back have a more modern section which is being developed which is called Salisbury Square and that's hoping to be finished in the next couple of years with some new office blocks and some housing. But definitely a way to sort of activate the space and sort of bring those who only know the new town back into Old Hatfield as we still call it.
Obviously you've got all of the, the beautiful housing with all of the sort of old fashioned shutters on the outside.
And my favourite thing that I learned when I was probably about 10 years old is that whenever you go into a house you have to go down step to get into the front door. And the, the reason that you know why is because you tarmac the road and you keep looking after it and the more you use it the more you need to tarmac it. And therefore the road level rises but the house does not where it was originally built. So you always have to step down into all of the old buildings which is always quite nice to see. It is a bit of a steep hill and I do have to Walk it often. So I like to say that I'm quite good at it, but it is a. Is a bit of a trek. But it's, it is a gorgeous view. And obviously, as you come under the archway and you come into what we call palace green, it is a beautiful first view. View of it is building.
[00:11:39] Speaker B: And I think I just before we do that, I just want to sort of emphasize that being the main entrance, you know, we can imagine the, the processions of perhaps little Princess Elizabeth being brought here, the whole train making its way, as you say, uphill. It's quite a grand kind of entrance. You can see the red brick gateway at the top of the, at the top of the street. May I just pause and just talk about St. Ethelreda's Church for a moment? Because, dear listeners, if you do visit, you do want to make sure that you just nip outside of this old gate house and go and have a look at the church, because there's quite an important Tudor event that took place there.
In fact, it was the christening of Frances Brandon. Of course, she was a daughter of Charles Brandon, Duke of Suffolk, and his wife, Mary, Tudor sister to Henry viii. And in fact, Mary gave birth to Francis here at the old palace in 1517. There's absolutely glorious account of her christening. Real detail is given about the, the jewels and the plates and the cloth of gold and the fabric that adorned the porch and the church for the christening of this important little baby. Of course, Frances went on to be the mother of Lady Jane Grey. So do make sure that you, you pop outside to the parish church and stand in that porch where the godparents would have stood because they had to vouch for the baby, that they would forsake the devil before the baby was allowed to be taken into the church. So.
And in fact, if you want to read an account of that christening, I did write a blog about Hatfield House and I've included the original account there. So I'll put a link in the description with this podcast of that blog, but I'll also put a link to our show notes page. As ever, this seems like a good time to mention our show notes page. We'll be taking pictures as we go around today, and so we will include those. So if you want some, we'll do our best to describe what we see to you, dear listeners. But if you want some visuals, pop on over and have a look at that.
Okay, so we reached the outer gatehouse, the original gatehouse range then for the old palace.
[00:13:47] Speaker C: Yes. So all of the red brick that you see around it sort of creates a little bit of a courtyard essentially. We think it might have extended fully round to have joined onto the other side where the wall is. But obviously you've got areas of the church as well in there now. So we sort of try and incorporate that. But yes, all of the red brick is the, the original facades of the buildings.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: Yeah. And actually in that it doesn't disappoint because any Tudor lover expects to see red brick and you know you've arrived a good old sort of late medieval sort of early Tudor building when you see see this gorgeous range. And so we come to this courtyard which would have been the principal courtyard and the main entrance into the palace. Can you describe what, what we see in front of us at the moment?
[00:14:29] Speaker C: So we are in what we call palace green. Obviously you've got the big oval green literally right in front of you and obviously all of the, the Hatfield clay red brick which we're obviously immensely proud of. The first building you actually have on your left hand side is the Hatfield Park Park Real tennis club.
I say real tennis because it is real tennis. It's the sport that Henry VIII created. So it's one of only a couple left in the country, I believe. So it's sort of a mix between squash and tennis in which you have to hit it onto the roof first.
So it does look quite odd in which you've got windows with no windows in and they're all blocked up, but it's only so that the light doesn't distract the players on the inside. I see.
[00:15:10] Speaker B: Because I thought, oh, that must be not used for something. I had no idea. So we've got an original Tudor real.
[00:15:15] Speaker C: An original Henry viii.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: No idea. That's amazing. Have you played?
[00:15:20] Speaker C: I have, I have.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: It's.
[00:15:21] Speaker C: It is difficult. It's immensely difficult but it's, it's very good fun to keep you very fit.
And obviously a lot of people in the office do, do use their lunch breaks accordingly, which is quite fun.
[00:15:32] Speaker B: But it's not open to the public though. It's a private club.
[00:15:35] Speaker C: It is a private club, but I believe you can sign up for less than as a member of the public. So if you, if you fancy having a go, ask about it.
[00:15:43] Speaker B: That was a lovely diversion and I had no idea. So thanks for telling us about that.
[00:15:46] Speaker C: You're welcome.
[00:15:47] Speaker B: So, and then we work our way around.
[00:15:49] Speaker C: Yes. As you move around the windows that you then see, which are actual windows, go into what we now call the riding school. So the actual facade of the building is still the original brick and would have been the riding school as it was at the time, but now it's modernized as a conference venue, as a wedding venue as well, sometimes. So you've got a nice sort of more modern space inside, but with the glorious facade of the building and obviously covered in the most gorgeous wisteria at the moment.
And I'm hoping that it will still last long enough for people to come and see it, but they have to come back if they don't see it when it's up. But it is lovely as you work your way around, you've got the gate right in front of you, which we call laundry arch. I believe that obviously comes from either laundry being delivered in or out at some point, but that is now what we call it. And you've got the last remaining wing of the old palace, which I know that we'll go into later.
But the old palace itself is. Is the. The gorgeous tall building in front of us and does date back all the way to 1485 and has been kept exactly as it would have been.
[00:16:58] Speaker B: So it's really fantastic that we've still got that surviving rage. And we will talk about what happened to the old palace and why it doesn't all still exist, but at least we have one range and probably one of the most important ones. And we will be going inside and telling some stories of what happened actually in that very room. But speaking of stories, I want to kind of go back now and talk about the association with Elizabeth and her first encounter with Hatfield. When did she first come here?
[00:17:27] Speaker C: She would have come here as a baby. She would have been brought here not long after she was born. And it essentially, when it was taken over by Henry viii, eventually it was a nursery and it would have been brought. The. The children would have been brought up here. So Mary, Elizabeth and Edward all spent at least some time here. Mary probably the least, became a bit of an angsty teenager and wanted her own estate and obviously moved, moved away. But Elizabeth and Edward spent quite a lot of their time here from a very young age and would have been looked after in a.
In a sort of governess standard at some point.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: And actually, we should just say that, you know, we started off telling the story that this belonged to the bishops of Ely, But Henry viii, like Henry viii tended to do, got his claws into the palace. He became quite a regular visitor, I think, from sort of around the mid 15 teens, I think, but didn't actually take formal control, I think, till around 1538. But he started to use it, didn't it, as it was his own palace.
[00:18:28] Speaker C: Absolutely. So obviously, like I said, not a religious building. So even during the Reformation of the monasteries, it wasn't a monastery to take over, but it was owned by religious people. And I think, as we know, Henry VIII thought, that's good enough for me, and he took it over anyway. But he did use it almost like a summer home for a period of time, especially as the. Before all of the children came. But it was definitely a summer house to begin with.
And he enjoyed using the estate. Definitely hunted and rode quite a lot while he was here, and then thought, this is quite a nice building, I'd like to keep it and use it for something. And then the. The children sort of came here after.
[00:19:05] Speaker B: That because there's a. There's still a park, associated park. So that would have been a hunting park. Absolutely beautiful, away from the. The press of the city and the filth and the dirt, as you say. Great place to come away to during the summer months and just enjoy yourself.
[00:19:19] Speaker C: I'd like a summer estate like this. It would be amazing. I think in. In total, in just. In Hatfield park itself, there's about over 800 acres. Only 400 acres of it is accessible because quite a lot of it is conservation areas. So they're completely shut off and we just let them do their own thing. And, you know, the habitat can grow and the wildlife can sort of use it as it would like to use it.
400 acres of it is left. We obviously use quite a lot of it for the public to access. We have festivals and events and things on our showground and our event field.
And then obviously you have areas of the private side and the private drive and the Dinner Deer park as well, which is on the other side, which we'll definitely see later. So there's still pretty much all of the park is left and obviously some areas not all available, but it's being looked after in the best way, intact.
[00:20:11] Speaker B: And I bet some of the deer that still roam there are ancestors of the deer.
[00:20:14] Speaker C: They must be. And we have quite a lot of farms as well. So obviously on the other side, because it stretches right over to sort of the A414. On the other side of the. Of the park, we have farmers and tenants and other people who use the land immensely well and they're looking after it as it would have been at the time and, you know, making it aggregate and the way that it should be at the time.
[00:20:37] Speaker B: Absolutely. So it's really still thriving which is great. It's really good to hear back to Elizabeth coming here.
She was here as just a small child, a toddler. And of course. Can we talk a little bit about Mary and Mary coming here and what. Cause, I mean, there was a couple of. One at least very famous event surrounding Mary and Anne. And maybe you can tell us the story around that.
[00:21:03] Speaker C: From what I know, Mary being significantly older than Elizabeth, I believe she was meant to look after her while she was here and be the nanny and the older sister and the governess all in one. And I can imagine. And I've been told she wasn't particularly happy about it.
So once she was here, I think it was a bit of a sad moment for her to be sort of taken over by a younger princess with her mother, now Queen, instead of, obviously, Catherine of Aragon. And there was definitely some disdain involved in that relationship.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Absolutely. She wasn't. I mean, she had been Princess of Wales and suddenly she wasn't.
[00:21:42] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: And she was relegated to basically serving in her infant sisters. Yes. So she wasn't. She was not happy about that.
[00:21:49] Speaker C: The building was nicer, at the job. Not so much.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: Not so much. And then Anne Boleyn, of course, couldn't keep Elizabeth with her. I mean, that was the way of. The way of things.
It was right and appropriate that Elizabeth, as Princess of Wales, set up her own household. And this was really her first household, although she moved around like all the royals did, but. And of course was devoted to her daughter and came to see her. And there was a bit of a. Bit of a sticky moment, I think, between, shall we call it that, as you've just said, Georgina? Mary, not happy at all. There was lots of drive. She was a teenager. She was extremely upset about what had happened to her mother and her displacement and the fact that she had to serve her infant sister. And she absolutely hated Anne Boleyn. I mean, this was the woman who turned her life upside down. I'm sure that's how she saw Anne Boleyn and was not prepared to acknowledge Anne as Queen. Nevertheless, Anne came here and really extended an olive branch to Mary and invited her to come and. Come and visit while Anne was in residence here. And that if she would do that and accept Anne as Queen, then Anne would go to Henry and intercede and try and bring them back together. Because, of course, the reason Henry had sent her here was that she'd refused to accept that her mother had never been legally married to her father and that she was illegitimate. And so Henry obviously was incandescent that his daughter was going to sort of fight him on this and refuse to bend to his will. I mean, it was unthinkable at the time.
So there we have the situation. He wasn't talking to Mary and answered, if you come and acknowledge me, then I will build bridges with your father.
And her reply was that she knew no other queen but her mother. But if Mistress Anne Boleyn would care to intercede with her father, then she would be extremely grateful.
Well, you can imagine how well that went down with Anne.
And the discord between them was just inflamed even more. And Anne was determined from that point to be to sort of bring her pride and her, you know, fiery Spanish pride to heel.
So it didn't go very well.
[00:24:10] Speaker C: Not the best scenario for those two. No.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: And I think Mary ended up, you know, she was so intransigent and there was so much, so refusing to bend to the will of her father. I think in the end she was forced to eat with the rest of the household in the great chamber, I believe.
[00:24:24] Speaker C: So that story I've heard, which, of.
[00:24:27] Speaker B: Course she would normally, if her. A lady of her rank and status would be served upon, served upon in her own chambers. So what an indignity for her.
So, yes, I'm sure Mary didn't have great memories of being here.
[00:24:40] Speaker C: I think the. The fact that she decided to move quite quickly after coming here was obviously a sign as well. You've got the most gorgeous building that we're stood in front of. But to be given that role, being who you are and having to look after your younger sister and. And lose your title in that way, I think I probably would have wanted to move out as soon as possible as well.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: Absolutely.
Now I think we can get in and see some of the spaces that do survive. So where do we need to go? Georgina, lead the way.
[00:26:25] Speaker C: There is obviously the main door through the front, which, if you are a gorgeous bride on your wedding day, have all of your photos taken in front of that door. However, for the beginning of our old palace tours, when they're running, we do take you through a secret side door and take you up to a couple of the original rooms upstairs that are above the kitchens and then further into the building after that.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: Lovely. Another secret door. So we're just approaching this western range. There's a beautiful Tudoresque door.
Thank you.
[00:26:59] Speaker C: You'll actually see as you enter, as we go up the stairs, there is an original layout plan of the old palace in Hatfield on the wall. There's also a copy of this in Hatfield House as well, which you can see. But it does show you the original layout of the, the building. So it did have four wings, it was a quadrangle, sort of like Hampton Court with the courtyard in the middle. And the last remaining wing is that we're currently stood in is on the left hand side going down. And obviously the, the three wings, we'll definitely discuss where they went later. And obviously it does give you, you the expanse of Hatfield at the time. And obviously there's even more of that.
[00:27:38] Speaker B: It's beautiful. I mean you could see the scale of the parkland and all the paths and trails that crisscross through the woodland. And also just looking at that plan and in fact in the blog I mentioned, I think I've got a copy of that plan and you can see on the, I think it's the southern side. You've got all the beautiful gardens all laid out in Tudor style, haven't you? All the Knot gardens. It's really, really pretty. And therefore I, I believe, I think that this range on the south was probably the private, where the private apartments were because they normally looked out over the garden.
[00:28:13] Speaker C: Yes, that would be. So the, the wing that we'll go into, the corner of the wing that we'll go into shortly is the bottom wing and which would have been Elizabeth's original wing where her bed chamber would have been. This is only the plan from the air that we have of the original one. I know that we do have a rendered image of what it would have looked like in a 3D perspective which I'll have to try and get a hold of it for you because it is a fantastic image to see that someone has created from accounts because obviously there's not much admin going back that far. So this is the best we've got at the moment. But that, you know, future images that have been created electronically are now very, very clever to see what it would have looked like. And we can see all of the original.
[00:29:02] Speaker B: Oh, that would be wonderful. And it'd be great if we could include that in the course. Fabulous. Right, excellent. Let's press on.
So as you probably hear, dear listeners, we're heading on up the stairs.
[00:29:16] Speaker C: Everybody asks me about the giant mirror. It's for the brides.
[00:29:19] Speaker B: Okay, right.
[00:29:20] Speaker C: Obviously.
[00:29:23] Speaker B: I can see a rogues gallery.
[00:29:24] Speaker C: You can.
So this is what we aptly name the fireplace room. It has two fireplaces in it. Again, a lot of the original uses of these rooms is lost because it could have been anything at the time, it might have Been completely redone when the other wings were removed.
But this is where a lot of our tours take place because obviously you've got the.
After Hans Holbein, the younger portraits of Henry and his six wives, and it's quite nice to see them all together in the collection, actually.
[00:29:58] Speaker B: What's the dates then? What's the century?
Are these 16th century or are they later?
[00:30:04] Speaker C: They're slightly later because they're copies.
But the originals, I believe, are around about then.
[00:30:09] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:30:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I think some of them were on show at the Holbein exhibit at royal staterooms.
[00:30:17] Speaker B: Yes.
So it's an interesting one of Catherine.
I don't think I've seen that one before. Or even of Jane, actually. I think Anne Boleyn, Anne of Cleese. Very familiar.
I've never seen one of Catherine Howard or Catherine Parr before, but interesting.
[00:30:38] Speaker C: I always find it odd to see Anne Boleyn without her bee.
[00:30:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:42] Speaker C: Still with the pearls.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: Still with the pearls, as always.
So, I mean, I'm just thinking now we've got this west range which has the great hall in it.
What great halls would have had a low end and a high end. So the low end was more the service end. The high end led to the privy chamber. So I presume we're at the low end because we're going to go to the other side.
[00:31:04] Speaker C: Yes, we are. And directly underneath us is, even though it's now modernized, is now the kitchen area. So obviously would have been at the time.
Now it's obviously got proper full ranges in it.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: But that was the kitchen. It would have been excellent.
[00:31:19] Speaker C: There are also rooms upstairs that go to the tower as well. That's very exciting.
[00:31:31] Speaker B: Oh, look at this, look at this.
Oh, so you've brought me.
We're going to go back inside the hall in a minute. We've come through the hall. We're going to talk about that in a minute in relation to some of the most important stories. But you've brought me out the kind of the porch, the main entrance that I suppose would have been out into the courtyard, the inner courtyard of the palace.
[00:31:52] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:31:52] Speaker B: So tell me about this space.
[00:31:54] Speaker C: This is now the. What we call the Knot Garden as a K N O T Knot garden.
And you can sort of tell from its first glance it's obviously perfectly square feel, which would have been where the other wings lined it around, like you said, creating a sort of courtyard.
All of the flowers and hedges and things that are used by our gardeners in here mean that it's something is always in bloom. At every point in the year. So even though they always don't. They don't always bloom at the same time, there's always something lovely to see.
And they're all based on original gardens that would have been adjacent to the palace when it was built. So obviously this would have been just a courtyard area. And like you said, we saw on the. The plan all of the gardens would have lined the sort of private wing. So we've taken those designs and, you know, the, the knotting of the hedges and the courtyards design and put them together and made this glorious garden.
[00:32:58] Speaker B: It's really lovely. I'm back. We're basking in the sunshine here, aren't we? And then of course, over and we' to come. We're actually going to go inside the main. The new Prodigy House, Hatfield House. As most people know today. We're going to go in there a little bit later because there's some important artifacts related to Elizabeth. We can see how close it is. And I, I don't want to kind of cut the story short, but of course we can obviously see that these three ranges have disappeared.
Do we have any remnants of the footings or have they completely gone?
[00:33:34] Speaker C: Completely gone. I'm not sure whether that's how good a job they did taking them down or whether that's how things have grown since then and, and covered it.
Some of the extra brick work along the edges and especially some of the. The wooden staircasing has definitely been added, but does. Is in keeping with everything that was left behind. So we try and look after that as best we can. But the, the shape of where it was is definitely still clear, but not any foundations or anything.
[00:34:06] Speaker B: Never mind, never mind.
So where. Because I'm looking over to my left now where the south range would have been, that's the Privy lodging range. I can see this kind of.
Was that the end of the.
Kind of a fragment of that range. It's sort of where the south. It's where the south and the west meet.
[00:34:24] Speaker C: Yeah. So this corner where the wooden stairs are is if you imagine it going horizontal in front of you, heading down towards the house. This would have been the private wing. And we know from the limited number of plans that we have that that would have been Elizabeth's bedchamber wing.
[00:34:44] Speaker B: Yes.
I think I was reading something that Simon Thurley. People will know, Georgina, I'm a bit of a fan of Simon Thurley, who's the architectural historian, was writing about the fact that, you know, where was Mary lodged and he. He he didn't. I don't think we know the answer to that question. He was postulating it could have been on the ground floor under Elizabeth's rooms, or it could have been over in one of the other kind of guest ranges.
What a brilliant view you get up here.
[00:35:13] Speaker C: You can definitely see the, the layout of it now and you know how big it would have been at the time.
One, one wing is, is big enough. And you see when we go and see the main hall, you sort of see the, the grand expanse. But to have four wings of that size would have have been unbelievably impressive.
[00:35:33] Speaker B: Yeah, there's some lovely diapering patterns into the brick there, isn't there? They've really decorated the, the facade of the building.
[00:35:42] Speaker C: Absolutely. And also this would have been the inside of the courtyard. So it's quite nice to look at now, but obviously would have been definitely something to, to see when hidden inside as well.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: But I suppose when you look across at the, the big house, let's call it the big house, the main house, the modern house, it's, it's. Even though this would have been big that it probably would have dwarfed this palace even, even when this palace was intact, because it's what it's for. Three, three stories, Four stories.
[00:36:11] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:36:13] Speaker B: Whereas this is just a two story building. So he clearly, and we'll come to who he is, had grand designs for.
[00:36:21] Speaker C: His new house, definitely had a good vision for what he wanted.
[00:36:24] Speaker B: So where are we going into now?
[00:36:26] Speaker C: This room that we're about to head into we now call the upper solar. The room directly below it is the lower solar. So they're the, the solar rooms mostly because as you can tell, it gets the sun the most and definitely we can feel the heat in here a little bit. But this was the original school room or the teaching room in the palace, which meant that Elizabeth and Edward would both have been taught in this room at some point.
[00:36:55] Speaker B: That's pretty awesome, Georgina. That's pretty awesome.
[00:36:58] Speaker C: We have meetings in here often and it's always the best story to tell them because they feel like they're learning something somewhere that a royal has previously learned and they absolutely love that.
But it is a lovely room. The acoustics are lovely, but it's a really nice room to sort of contemplating, I think.
And you know, both of them learnt about 12 languages between them, so I think Elizabeth and Edward did a very good job.
I've heard Edward wasn't so much a fan, but Elizabeth did, did very good at studying in here.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: She was she was an incredible scholar. That's. That's. She could put most people to shame, I would say. So it's interesting to think, isn't it, that that doorway that we've just come through, which today leads out into the garden, undoubtedly led into the sequence of chambers that would have been used by Princess Elizabeth.
[00:37:53] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:37:54] Speaker B: Now, let's fast forward a little bit from childhood, which you've just mentioned here, into her teenage years, and she's staying with Catherine Parr at Sudeley Castle, alongside Catherine's new husband, Thomas Seymour. And there's all sorts of odd shenanigans go on with Thomas Seymour and many people will know the story. She eventually gets sent away in disgrace because there's some rather really quite inappropriate behavior goes on and she gets sent away and eventually she ends up back here at Hatfield. But it's kind of not the end of the story because she gets embroiled when Seymour sort of falls foul of being accused of plotting to marry Elizabeth, basically, and essentially taking control of the country and marrying the heir to the throne, not the done thing.
So they send some people out here to interrogate Elizabeth. What can you tell us about that?
[00:38:58] Speaker C: We're not exactly sure where it would have happened, but it could have happened anywhere in here, which you can imagine if it was, especially if it was held up here. It's a very close room. It's not the biggest of spaces. And, you know, for one princess and a lot of interrogators, this could have been quite intense.
Obviously, as we'll go into later, you've got the room downstairs, which is the lower solar, which is even smaller, and then you've also got the main banqueting hall, which then becomes. There's so much room. Are you then overwhelmed with noises and voices and shouting and pointing fingers and obviously we hope it didn't happen, but if it was in any of her private quarters, you're Then, you know, they're encroaching on your personal property and your private side and your bedchambers and your rooms, which I can imagine for Elizabeth wouldn't have been the nicest thing to have, especially when, from a lot of letters and things that she sent from here. Hatfield is her safe space and she loved it here and she always retreats here as her sort of haven. And to have all of those people turn up and, you know, accuse her and probably shout at her quite intensely would have been a really scary moment for her. I can imagine.
[00:40:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up, because that's what strikes Me when I read about Elizabeth's time. Here is her safe space. She really loves Hatfield and here she is. I mean, she's 15 and she's placed under really intense interrogation about her involvement. Was there plotting going on, and her coffer, Thomas Parry, and her governess Blanche, were shipped off to London for interrogation. So she wouldn't have known what was going on with them. And she would have been deeply worried, I'm sure, for her beloved Blanche.
So really, really pressing time. I remember reading a quote, I can't remember who, whether it was Linda Porter, who's basically saying that whatever happened here transformed her from a girl to a woman, and for better or worse, she was never going to be the same again. It taught her some serious lessons.
[00:41:07] Speaker C: I think this was her moment between being a princess and becoming ready to be queen. Yes, it was. She's young, for sure, but I think it's a good sort of emotionally an emotional learning point for her to go. I'm now no longer carefree, enjoying the grounds, learning languages, sitting down and reading books. This is. People are watching me at all times. Everything I do is now under scrutiny. This is the point where I need to make sure that everything I do is done for a reason and has a purpose, rather than just being, oh, it's such a lovely day, I might go for a walk. It becomes, if I go for a walk, what do I wear? Who do I walk with? How do I walk? Am I going somewhere? And that everything then has purpose from here on out, I think, yeah, it's.
[00:42:01] Speaker B: A really good way of putting it.
The Queen, in making happens here, she's forged here and I love that.
It's fantastic to have come up here because I've never been in this space before, so that's a real thrill for me. So thank you. I notice in one wall, I'm not sure whether this would have been here. There may have been some kind of squint looking down, but today you've got the glass that looks right down.
[00:42:22] Speaker C: We do. We couldn't not put glass in here. It's too good of a view to. To miss from this room looking down.
There's a place similar in Hatfield House itself, where you. You can see over the main hall from a room above. So it is possible, like you said, that there could have been something dividing it, which maybe would have been a possible sort of servant lookout, just to see, especially if you've got big banquets on or parties, you would have looked down and, you know, kept an eye on, you know, does the. The Queen, need more wine? Is there enough turkey legs on the table? Whatever it is that they're discussing? And then they could have worked it out from here. But, yeah, now we've got these gorgeous windows in.
[00:42:58] Speaker B: You can.
[00:42:58] Speaker C: Can see the great hall.
[00:43:00] Speaker B: Great hall, which we are going to go down to now. And you can tell me all about it, because the. The architecture is bre. Look at that ceiling. Oh, my goodness. Dear listeners, you must have a look at the ceiling because it's just a beauty. So let's go down and just stand and be awed by it.
Lead the way.
Well, this huge door that we've just come through that leads us down. So we've come downstairs now and we are standing in the middle of the great hall. So please tell us about this hall. What are some of the features that are really interesting that talk to us about, you know, its significance and how it was developed, et cetera.
[00:44:44] Speaker C: So the entirety of this room is pretty much original.
I think the only thing that isn't is the floor, and that's just because it's used the most. Everything else dates back all the way to the original building, including, as you said earlier, the most amazing ceiling.
It's all made from English oak and walnut, I believe. And the oak trees would have come from the estate.
So when we go out later on, you'll see the expansive oaks that we have. But they were used to create this beautiful ceiling.
I learned recently from a maritime historian that if you picked up this room and you flipped it upside down and put it on the sea, it would float. It is essentially the bow of a ship just flipped upside down. Which. Which must be good, because when it rains, it doesn't leak. So that's good to know. But is, you know, that sort of beautiful structure. It's completely sound. There's nothing wrong with it. Every time we check it, obviously we have people come and make sure that it's all still intact, that nothing's rotting, that everything is doing okay. And we all sit here with our fingers crossed, and I don't know why we do. Because there's nothing wrong with it. It's structurally perfect.
The best part about it is that you can obviously see all the knots in the wood, which is obviously nice and characterful. But you'll see occasionally that there's some very small sort of perfectly circular holes.
And most people think they're nails or something. But at some point, this room was used as a stables and the sparrows moved in. So the only way that you get sparrows down, unfortunately, at that time was to shoot them.
So you've actually got a couple of sort of musket holes in the wood.
But that is quite nice to see. It's got its original sort of character, it's got an added story to it and it's still completely intact.
So we obviously got them all out in the end, I assume, because we haven't had any problems.
[00:46:46] Speaker B: Yeah. You've got these sort of faces on the plinth which the arches sort of sit on.
[00:46:53] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:46:54] Speaker B: Are they original as well?
[00:46:55] Speaker C: They are. They're almost gargoyle like, but they sort of depict more real faces and we don't actually know who made them because they all seem to be done by somebody different and that person is the face.
So the best way for a stonemason at the time to have sort of made their signature on what they created was to use their own face as a portrait. So pretty much every stone has been made by somebody different and that person is who you're looking at, which is quite a nice touch.
[00:47:26] Speaker B: That's fantastic, isn't it?
[00:47:27] Speaker C: If not slightly scary.
[00:47:29] Speaker B: What about the tapestries that you have? Because they lining all the walls here, it makes it lovely and warm along with all the wood.
[00:47:36] Speaker C: So they are, I say, recent addition. They've been here as long as I can remember. But some people do remember having events in here where you could see all of the original brick underneath. But they depict a typical Tudor hunting scene. So historically they are perfectly accurate to. To the building. They are digital recreations of the tapestry that's in the VA Museum. So the original belongs to the Victorian Abbott Museum in London. But we have these gorgeous, pretty much authentic copies to hang here. Just to add that extra sort of historical ambiance to the room. Because it probably would have lined a room similar to this. Like you said, it keeps the heat in. It adds something extra to look at that's not the brick. But also would have been, you know, a historical significant scene that you would have seen, so.
[00:48:26] Speaker B: Absolutely, definitely.
I think the. I think I even read an account and maybe we'll come on to this, of a banquet given for Mary Queen Mary at the time by Elizabeth, where the tapestries are described. So absolutely it would have been hung just like you see at Hampton Court. And many of you dear listeners will know what that is like.
Actually, the dimensions are not that different to Hampton Court, actually. It's. It's. It's a really huge hall and just gives you an idea of the importance.
Now my imagination is running away with me a little bit Here, which is not an uncommon thing to happen.
And I'm thinking about. I'm fast forwarding a little bit in Elizabeth's life now, and we are now in the reign of her half sister Mary. The first Edward has died.
She obviously hears about the death of Edward. I think probably while she's here at Hatfield, she, very sensibly, I think she gets summoned to London by the new Lord Protector. And like any sensible Tudor princess, she claims that she's ill and she can't travel, she keeps her head down because of course we get this big tussle for the throne between the Lord Protector and Mary, who is essentially putting Lady Jane Grey forward and Mary. And that's quite a. That's a tricky time. But she keeps her head down, she keeps out of trouble and her half sister Mary comes to the throne, but that's unfortunately not the end of her troubles.
[00:49:56] Speaker C: Apparently Elizabeth claimed she was ill quite often whenever Mary summoned her. And if she wasn't currently at Hatfield, she would come to, to Hatfield and say that she never left.
And like we said earlier, this was her safe space. And I think when you're summoned by your half sister and you don't really fancy going, saying that you're ill and going to a lovely palace and hiding here is not the bad option. I think that she did quite well.
But, yes, it would have been a very interesting time for her to have been sat here thinking about what would happen next.
[00:50:31] Speaker B: And, you know, I'm thinking about that time. Of course, it becomes even more dangerous if she thought there were. She had problems with the whole Thomas Seymour affair. It becomes even more dangerous when her half sister gets onto the throne in 1553, because of course, Mary is Catholic and she turns, tries to turn England back to Catholicism.
We know Elizabeth is of a Protestant leaning, as her half brother was.
And of course, all the Protestants now start to rally around Elizabeth and she, whether she likes it or not, she becomes the potential figurehead for any revolt against the Crown. And in fact, I think just the following year, following Mary's accession to the throne, that's exactly what happens. And Elizabeth gets arrested here, I would imagine. I'm sure it must have been here.
[00:51:24] Speaker C: It must have been here. I think Mary knew as well that Elizabeth was popular with the masses, especially you've had the whole Lady Jane Grey debacle, who obviously was carrying on that Protestant line anyway, and suddenly, you know, all of the Protestant supporters don't have anywhere to go and they turn to Elizabeth knowing that her significance is where they should be.
And Mary knows that. And I think it definitely scared her a bit, knowing that if all of these people are supporting someone who's actually not on the throne, this could be a bit of a scary moment for her.
And, you know, arresting Elizabeth was the image that she needed and I think was a sort of display of, if I can do it to my sister, I can do anything.
Which is definitely a very good symbol to have shown people to scare them.
[00:52:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm imagining, like, the party who came to arrest her arriving here and coming through the various doors, because this is the main entrance to the palace and we're standing looking at the doors that lead to the porch from the main courtyard. And I can imagine them coming and presenting themselves and Elizabeth coming down here and being taken to the Tower. She must have been terrified.
[00:52:42] Speaker C: I like to think she knew, at least a little bit, that something was going to happen and that she was ready. I think, like we said earlier, being upstairs, and she's now become, you know, a queen in the making rather than just, you know, a princess in a palace. This now becomes.
I'm ready to take this step. I definitely terrified. It would have been, you know, a really scary moment, but having that knowledge of what's previously happened, like we said, it would be quite nice for her to be sort of ready and prepared to. To face whatever's going to come next, because I think she would have been definitely up for a fight, I think.
[00:53:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, we've just said she had some trial runs of what it was going to be like, but nevertheless, going to the Tower where her mother died must have been absolutely terrifying. But as we all know, Elizabeth navigated the intense interrogation she was put under. She did spend a period of time in the Tower before finally being released and going into house arrest, initially at Woodstock for a year or so. And actually, I've also, dear listeners, written a blog about Elizabeth's time at Woodstock, if you wanted to check that out. I'll also include the link in the description, but as soon as she can. Back to your point, Georgina, she's back to her safe haven and by now, actually, she owns Hatfield, doesn't she? We've kind of glossed over that.
How did that happen?
[00:54:04] Speaker C: She was gifted it, I believe. I can't remember exactly who by, but it sort of got handed down between lords and earls and other sort of nobility, and I think at one point it was going to be completely destroyed or taken down or sort of refurbished as it would have been in those days. And Elizabeth asked for it because this was her childhood home. This was her safe space and her refuge from everything that was going on in the family and in the country.
And eventually it was gifted to her.
[00:54:44] Speaker B: I think it was actually her brother, because it was still.
[00:54:46] Speaker C: It was her brother.
[00:54:47] Speaker B: Yeah, Edward.
[00:54:48] Speaker C: And I think being given it, by.
[00:54:52] Speaker B: Being.
[00:54:53] Speaker C: Giving it in her own right then meant this wasn't just somewhere she could go to be safe and enjoy herself. It was her specific place to go and that she had therefore more control over it. But also, you can feel that you can put your heart into it more when it's yours. Like buying your first house, you, you know, as soon as you put your key in the door, that's yours now. And I think she definitely probably felt like that at this point.
Especially if you're coming under house arrest, you're going, just leave me in my own house. I won't cause you any hassle, I won't give you any problems. Just let me stay at home and I'll keep out of your way. And I think that was a very smart political move.
[00:55:32] Speaker B: I think it was. And in fact, despite, you know, despite all the troubles between the half sisters, Mary, she did develop some level of trust with Elizabeth. And in fact, Mary came and visited her, I think, just the year before she died. She came here to Hatfield.
Do you have any records of that visit?
[00:55:55] Speaker C: Not as far as we're aware, which is a shame, because there must be so many stories of people visiting and, you know, we can. You've got portraits on the wall that are gifted from people who come and say hi for a couple of nights and they gift you a portrait of themselves. It's like taking a selfie and putting it on your friend's fridge when you go around for dinner. But, you know, we don't know why they were here or what they visited for. If it was a political meeting, was it a social call, was it, you know, there was a big banquet and those sort of details that would be quite nice to know have sort of been lost over time, which is a shame. But think Mary did visit Elizabeth in that year.
And also at that point, Elizabeth starts to sort of become a bit more ready in her taking over as Queen because obviously everything going on with Mary and Philip of Spain at the time is causing issues. And she's not so much maybe focusing on being the queen that she should be. And Elizabeth is starting to learn. So I think there is a story that she was summoned to London by Mary and she wears black and white, she doesn't dress like a princess, she's really humble, wears something that a princess will probably never be seen in.
And she's told, don't wave at the crowd, don't say hello, don't smile at people. You're not here to entertain. You're not here to be that figurehead of the Protestant faith. You're here to go and see your sister. You focus on nothing else.
And she does because she's not trying to provoke Mary in a way that's going to. The people love me. You should be scared. It's a. I don't really care if they love me or not. If you're in charge, I'm letting you be in charge. I'm not causing you any issues. And I think especially a visit from Mary here definitely would have been that step forward in not just a friendship, but maybe an actual sibling friendship.
[00:57:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. I wonder whether Mary knew at that time that she was beginning to fall ill.
Obviously there was a sort of a bit of a protracted illness there. I wonder if she was starting to recognize that Elizabeth was actually going to inherit the throne. Although, as we know, right towards the end she had what she thought was a pregnancy which turned out not to be a pregnancy. So maybe she was still holding hope for an heir. But it's an interesting, I suppose, reconciliation of sorts between the two half siblings. But I do think this is appropriate to talk about one of the most, the principal characters who endured through, well, all of his life and much of Elizabeth and that's cause William Cecil and I'm aware that she obviously, you know, she met him while she was a princess. I'm not sure we know exactly when or how that happens.
[00:58:43] Speaker C: No, I don't think we do.
All that we know is that, you know, William Cecil at the time wasn't a man of particular nobility. He must have owned land and sort of had a decent standing. But essentially he was your sort of average Joe.
But he was a very smart man, there was no doubt about it. And I think Elizabeth clocked that very, very early on and realized that this is the sort of person that she should be not just friends with, but close with and have a sort of almost political collaboration with because he knew what he was talking about, but also was a very good reader of people and you know, understood what was good imagery wise and in terms of what should be shown to the public and what shouldn't be.
And he didn't. He wasn't just a friend. I think he was a confidant and a very, very good right hand man.
[00:59:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sure he was steering Elizabeth through those very difficult years as much as he was able to do.
So we are really getting to 1558.
This is obviously Elizabeth has been through. She's been the Princess of Wales, she's been an illegitimate bastard, she's been a accused traitor.
And now finally, when her sister, half sister, dies in November 1558, she finally has this moment of triumph. And I think we are going to be lucky enough to go and visit the place where legend has it that Elizabeth heard of the news of her accession. Is that right? Do we get the chance to.
[01:00:31] Speaker C: It is. I think I will definitely go and take you to see the oak tree. And I think it's important that we start before we travel, that we start here, because as I was saying about William, the story goes that Elizabeth was obviously here at Hatfield, but she just wouldn't have been sat around waiting to be queen because that's the most awful image possible. So it's definitely on the cards that William and her sort of discussed what we're going to go and see and how it's been portrayed over the years, because it is the most significant story and we're still telling it 400, 100 years later. So it must, must be important and have some element of truth to it. I can't believe it wouldn't.
[01:01:14] Speaker B: I think you're absolutely right.
Okay, let's.
[01:01:34] Speaker C: Sam.
[01:02:24] Speaker B: Oh, I told you. And we've come into the park. Oh, it's just. Hey, can I just say just how stunningly beautiful it is? But you've brought me, as promised, to the replacement tree, correct? I have a couple of questions. First of all, how did we know. How do. Did we know. How do we know that this supposedly, you know, that it's, it's original tree was the original tree?
[01:02:49] Speaker C: I believe, as far as I'm aware, all of the accounts of those who know the story or who wrote the story had the, the sort of vague location of, of where it was and how far from the palace it would have been.
And obviously you've got this amazing avenue of trees lining you along the way.
And whether these would have been here at the time, obviously the road wouldn't have been, but it would have been sort of this sort of vast, expansive park. It could have had less trees. It could have had more trees. The actual landscape, we're not quite sure, but the approximate distance makes a lot of sense for this corner to be the main sort of location for where Elizabeth would have sat under her, under her oak tree.
[01:03:34] Speaker B: And I presume the tree was of an age. So we. We have that clue as well. Are there other trees in the park? Because obviously they were surrounded by trees. Were there other trees of a similar age?
[01:03:44] Speaker C: Quite a few. You can see a couple behind the new one that we're looking at. There are a couple that are fenced off. They do date quite far back and obviously we've tried to leave them, you know, to do what they want to do naturally. And down in what we call our elephant dell, which is sort of that hill just beyond us to the right of the tree, we've got what we call. We call it Elephant Dell, because we call them elephant oak trees. They're so old that the bark looks like elephant skin, and they're all sort of mangled and almost drooping to the ground, and they just create these gorgeous sort of shapes and shadows. But there are trees on the estate that must date back as far back as the original Elizabeth tree does.
And obviously we do our. Do our best to look after them. So some of them are roped off for protection, but as we'll get into in a minute, ours was taken away safely.
[01:04:36] Speaker B: So I'm glad I've got sunglasses on because I'm feeling a bit teary, actually, because it's just actually really poignant that, okay, maybe here, maybe not quite here, but somewhere in this area.
Princess Elizabeth was not enjoying a warm day like today because it was November, so I imagine it was pretty chilly. But she would have seen that contingent arrive and really wonder, maybe for a moment, what. What the news was, was this. The news that Mary was finally. She would have known that her.
Her half sister was ill. She would have had that intelligence, I'm sure, from people like Cecil. But she would have been wondering what news is coming my way. And then, of course, they arrive and they present Mary's ring. And she knows her half sister's dead.
[01:05:26] Speaker C: And you don't disturb the Queen when she's reading either. If she's alone and she's outside, that's, you know, a symbol. She wants to be on her own. She wants to enjoy the peace and the countryside. So to have that job as well, of being the one who interrupts the. The now Queen at that time would have been a significant feat for somebody to. To do.
[01:05:52] Speaker B: So we can imagine that the courtier falls to his knees and presents her with the ring, and she accepts that ring. And then, of course, she utters those absolutely famous lines in Latin, which, I don't know about you, Georgina, but I.
[01:06:05] Speaker C: Don'T want to butcher it?
[01:06:06] Speaker B: No, but she says this is the Lord's doing and it is marvellous in our eyes.
And I can just. I can feel the emotion of the moment.
All of those years of uncertainty.
Finally she was going to be safe.
Gosh.
[01:06:25] Speaker C: I think as well, being in God's country outside, you know, maybe the landscape's not exactly as it was at the time, but even just stood here now, looking at the trees and hearing the birds and having that breeze come by, and you're thinking, it is marvellous, actually. And it's quite nice for her to have said that about here and about what was happening here and that singular moment in time having the significance that it does, being pretty much where we're stood.
[01:06:55] Speaker B: Absolutely. Can you imagine how excited she must have been?
A bit. A bit overawed, I imagine, but also just the relief and the excitement and the pure joy.
It's really, actually, it's really.
It's really touching to come here and it is a bit of a way from the house. So it's not an easy walk, is it? How far is it, walk wise, would you say, if you wanted to walk over here?
[01:07:20] Speaker C: I'd say at a decent pace. If you're taking your time and you're enjoying the walk, I'd say maybe about 20 minutes, 20 to 30 in that sort of bracket, again, depending on the heat. I think it takes me quite a little bit longer on today's day. But again, you can obviously cut directly across the grass, which makes it a little bit quicker.
But obviously the path that's concreted, it takes you directly here, so it's quite nice to have that direct line to it. But even for Elizabeth at the time, it wouldn't have been a quick walk. So I guess that's maybe where the uncertainty of the story comes from. But, you know, from all of the accounts, this is the location it would have been.
[01:08:02] Speaker B: Yeah. That's amazing. And you can wander anywhere in this park. I mean, genuinely, listeners, as we, as we look out, there's just this vast expanse of park which is dotted with a whole smorgasbord of different trees.
You can walk anywhere in this area.
[01:08:20] Speaker C: Pretty much in this area. There are certain areas as you go further in that are private or they're, you know, residences or conservation areas, but they're all very clearly sign posted, so it's not like you could accidentally walk in and be shouted at. So, yeah, pretty much everything you can see here is. Is open to the public. We've got two woods as well made over there, almost Gardens, but made into wood. So we have Jubilee wood, which is when Queen Elizabeth II had her latest Jubilee, she came and planted a tree, and from the air, it looks like a union flag on the floor.
And wake wood, which was where n our current Lord Salisbury marked his peerage as a Member of Parliament. So, you know, there's other significant areas in this park that is not just, you know, our history as we know it from 400 years ago, but actually modern history, which is also. Also quite nice to have.
[01:09:17] Speaker B: So I'm just. Before we go, I'm just touching the trunk of the oak, as you say, this is a descendant.
[01:09:25] Speaker C: It is. So the original tree was obviously getting very old. If it was 400 years from then, it was significantly older than that. So just to make sure that nothing was going to happen to it, it was uprooted. So it wasn't chopped down or taken apart. It was completely removed very safely and is currently being looked after.
And this tree that we see now is. Is a sibling tree. So it was taken as a sapling from the original oak tree and planted by Queen Elizabeth II in 1985. So, again, people will see a more modern oak tree. But, you know, having that direct descendant from the original tree is. Is even nicer and planted by a second Elizabeth is. Is even more poignant.
[01:10:12] Speaker B: It's brilliant, isn't it? So 40 years old, it's still a baby. There's a lot of growing that is to do.
[01:10:17] Speaker C: There's more queens for it to see.
[01:10:18] Speaker B: I think that would be a lovely thought. Okay, well, I think we've got to go back to the House because we want to finish the story, because after Elizabeth finds out that she's queen, she returns to the palace and another couple of significant events happen. So let's make our way back.
[01:10:36] Speaker C: Sounds good.
[01:12:07] Speaker B: So, Georgina, I really wanted to come back to the Great hall because I love standing in the spaces where things actually happen. We could have talked about this at the Great Oak, but I really wanted to be back here in the Great hall because after the accession, Elizabeth held her first Privy Council meeting.
[01:12:23] Speaker C: She did so pretty much immediately. It was customary to have all of your lords and ministers and anybody of anything political importance come for the first meeting. And Elizabeth decided to have it here. So all people are currently in carriages traveling from London.
[01:12:41] Speaker B: Exactly.
[01:12:41] Speaker C: And it's a very, very important time. Elizabeth, obviously, finding out she's queen here, stays here, and she's with William Cecil. Everybody's on the way. And obviously this hall would have been filled with all of those people as we look towards the end of the old palace great hall. There's the lower solar room.
And the story goes that her and William Cecil disappear into that room, door shut. Nobody knows what happened behind there. We don't know the conversation. Nobody was privy to that information. But they planned the future of England in there together.
And when she comes out, however many hours later, you know, through the night they're speaking, she comes out. This room is. Is filled with men. Definitely men.
Obviously, at the time, they've had a relatively scary queen who's just died. Lots of people were killed. So I think they're all a little bit on edge that this, you know, they're about to have another queen. Is it going to go as well as we think it will?
And Elizabeth, being the smart woman that she is, knows full well that this is going to be a bit of a rocky situation. And she stands at that end of the hall and she turns to everybody in the room and says, I have discussed with William my plans for England, listen to everything he says, and then sits in silence and just watches them for the next couple of hours while William essentially delivers the entire plan.
I like to think it's the biggest feminist move of all time that she's gone. You're not going to listen to a word I say if I tell you. So if I get a man to tell you, you might actually pay attention.
But I think it's brilliant in that she's going, if this man next to me trusts me enough to deliver this information to you, then you should trust me enough to listen to what he's saying. And they do, because they, you know, understand that this is one of a solid reign that we're about to have from her. But the best part about this whole story is that the lower solar room is now the bar.
So if you ever have a wedding or any sort of event in here, the bar room is indeed the lower solar. And that's where the future of England was planned. And if that's not the absolute most British thing you've ever heard, then I don't know what is.
[01:14:48] Speaker B: That's a great story.
[01:14:49] Speaker C: Definitely the most significant part of this building is that story.
[01:14:53] Speaker B: Yeah. So, I mean, it's at this point that William is created her first minister, her principal private secretary, and it's a job that he would give himself to 100% for the rest of his life. I think he only retired from court literally a matter of two or three weeks before he died. If I remember rightly, he was fully.
[01:15:15] Speaker C: Committed to that role.
[01:15:17] Speaker B: Absolutely was so, gosh, I'm trying to, you know, I'm thinking of all the nobles, as you say, kind of fleeing London, knowing that the old Queen was dead and going to where the epicenter of power was. And all of those people would have been, you know, the leading courtiers of the time, including Robert Dudley, I imagine, would have been in this room. So it's lovely to hear. Wow, that's a fantastic story.
Well, I think we've covered some of the most important spaces. I know most visitors perhaps coming here today will be focusing on the place we're about to go to, which is the Prodigy House built by Robert Cecil. And in fact, we should. When we get over there, we'll talk about what happens to the old palace here and why the new house has been built over there. But I know you've got some fantastic artefacts associated with. With lizards.
[01:16:08] Speaker C: We do have to go and see those. And of course, the most important portrait of all.
[01:16:12] Speaker B: Of course. And that's what we're going to look at next. And I know you've got some great stories to tell about it. Excellent.
[01:16:33] Speaker C: Sam.
[01:17:23] Speaker B: So, Georgina, we're just approaching the main entrance to the new hall. Hall Hatfield House built, I think, was it 1607? Ish.
[01:17:32] Speaker C: Beginning of started, then it finished in 1611. So it did take a, you know, three or four years to be built in total.
[01:17:37] Speaker B: And kind of the story of the presence of this house is intimately connected to the loss of the old palace. Can you tell us all about that transition period?
[01:17:47] Speaker C: Yes. So directly related to those three wings that we were talking about earlier.
When did William Cecil died and Robert Cecil, his son, took over as right minister to Elizabeth until the end of her life.
When James VI took over and became James I of England and Scotland, he would have traveled down from Scotland and done an awful long journey from the Highlands all the way down here and stopped at multiple stately homes and estates on the way. And Hatfield would have been probably near to one of the last ones, I would say. And Robert Cecil, you know, is doing this tour with him, almost brings him to.
To what would have been Hatfield palace at the time.
[01:18:32] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:18:33] Speaker C: And says, this is, you know, a summer home for you to use. You can use it as you wish. And James sort of turns his nose up at it and goes, well, I don't like it.
Which is understandable considering how much Tudor, you know, infrastructure it has and. And its influence from the Tudor period. So James obviously would have stayed at Robert's estate in Tybalt and said, I prefer your house. And it's much nicer. Here's an idea. You take Hatfield Palace, I'll take your estate at Tibbles, and we'll, we'll call it a day. And I think Robert probably concluded that he either lost his house or his head, picked his house as. As he rightly should have, and he gave up his estate at Tibbles and came to live here at Hatfield. It was obviously then an ex royal palace, but would have meant that he was given a title. So he then became the first Earl of Salisbury.
Again, as I said earlier, Salisbury is nowhere near here, but it would have been just a vacant title at the time. So that's what he was given.
And given that he was quite high up at the time and, you know, tried to continue that relationship when James took over, he really needed to solidify that relationship quite early on. And living in a house that your king's just rejected directly in front of you is probably not the best place to live. And he does work that out very quickly and decides that knocking down three wings of the old palace is the best thing to do. He does keep the remaining one, which we're ever so grateful for, but he does knock down the other three wings. And the story goes, he picked up the bricks and he moved them directly into the building of Hatfield House. Now, as we said earlier, is significantly larger. So where all the extra bricks came from, we're not quite sure. I do believe some garden walls went missing as well. But he did incorporate those bricks and sort of, you know, 17th century upcycling.
[01:20:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:20:27] Speaker C: Brought them over here and incorporated them into the building of Hatfield House, which is a prime example of a Jacobean manor house. And what better way to prove your loyalty to James than to build a house that's literally in his style and everything that he would have loved in a building?
And that's exactly what he did. So the old palace, like I said earlier, becomes a stables for a little bit. It sort of becomes a little bit empty, a bit derelict. I believe at one point it did house cars. And then they realized that as cars got bigger, they couldn't quite get into the door, so they stopped doing that.
And now obviously it's used as a. As a venue. But Hatfield House is to this day still the home of the direct descendants of the Cecils, now the Gascoigne Cecils. And we now have, I think, the 14th generation of his family. And Robert Gascoigne Cecil, the 7th Marquess of Salisbury and his Martianess, still live in the house today.
[01:21:21] Speaker B: I love that I love the fact that it's. It's that the history has survived and we've got that continuity. And I didn't know actually that the bricks. But it makes obvious sense because they were always recycling. Why would you get rid of bricks? But it makes a lot of sense now that part of the old palace maybe all of the old palace survives just in a different form.
[01:21:39] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[01:21:40] Speaker B: That's a really interesting thing. Now okay, let's go inside and explore some of these Elizabeth related treasures.
Okay so we're going up the main steps to the grand Jacobean porch. There's a few people around so you may hear voices in the background. My friends.
[01:21:58] Speaker C: We may or may not have had a filming project here today. So they are currently packing all of their stuff up. So we are quite privileged to be allowed to sneak on in.
[01:22:10] Speaker B: Take my sunglasses off because I can't see anything. There's right with the doors to the great hall are about to open. My friends. How exciting.
Oh m G A double door entrance.
[01:22:24] Speaker C: It needed one.
[01:22:25] Speaker B: Isn't. Oh my goodness.
Oh it's a while since I've been in here. I'd forgotten just. And we've got it to ourselves. So how lucky we are to be in this just stunning hall. And I can see the piece is at the far end which is. Is the famous rainbow portrait of Elizabeth. I Do you want to tell us a little bit about the hall? Because it's. We can't ignore it. It's absolutely glorious.
[01:22:58] Speaker C: It is my favorite room in the whole house. And I'm. I'm not biased because it's the first one. But it does. Does start you off correctly for the rest of the house.
The aptly named the Marble hall because of the checkerboard marble floor which also continues into the armoury. Again quite famous in some movies if you've. If you've seen. Keep an eye out for the floor. That's how you always know it's Hatfield.
But all of the woodwork is oak from the estate.
Some of them are most gorgeous Jacobean designs that go throughout the house.
The ceiling was decorated by an Italian artist in the 18th century but originally would have been completely white as with Jacobean design.
And there were busts of Caesar in the squares on the ceiling. But obviously now they've been made into much more decorative scenes.
You've obviously got the Cecil's themselves on the right hand side. So you've got William Cecil on the left in his magnificent hat and his cane and Robert Cecil next to him as well. And of course You've got James I in his lovely red stockings directly above both of them.
[01:24:16] Speaker B: You've got some actually incredible portraits in here.
I'm really actually a bit gobsmacked about how beautiful.
In fact, let's do a who's who. We've got Margaret Beaufort.
[01:24:30] Speaker C: Indeed.
[01:24:31] Speaker B: That is an above Margaret. What a charming little child in the most absolutely glorious red velvet gown.
[01:24:38] Speaker C: It could be a man.
It is indeed. It's Charles I.
[01:24:41] Speaker B: It's Charles I as a little boy.
[01:24:43] Speaker C: In 1606, I believe. So he would have been six years old. And the best part about it is that it says the Prince of Wales under underneath. But Wales spelt like the whale. The animal.
[01:24:54] Speaker B: The animal whale.
[01:24:55] Speaker C: Which is quite fun.
[01:24:56] Speaker B: And then, as you say, we've got Robert Cecil, a full length portrait of him.
We've got Mildred. Oh, Mildred. So Mildred was the. See, I'm testing myself now.
[01:25:09] Speaker C: You are.
[01:25:09] Speaker B: Mildred is the wife of William Cecil.
[01:25:11] Speaker C: Correct.
[01:25:13] Speaker B: Long standing, solid partnership, isn't it? Is that the only part? Is that the only portrait? You know, I see any. I don't know whether I've seen another one of her.
[01:25:20] Speaker C: Not that I'm aware. We were actually at Burley a couple of days ago and I didn't see one.
[01:25:25] Speaker B: She's rather splendid. Her jewels are really magnificent.
Oh, gosh. And then of course we've got William with a very tall hat. It almost looks more jacoby in that hat.
[01:25:38] Speaker C: It does.
[01:25:39] Speaker B: It doesn't. It does. Elizabeth, Was it. Was it a possibility posthumous painting or wonder if it was done in his time or not? Doesn't say, does it?
[01:25:47] Speaker C: Doesn't.
He was quite. From my perspective, he was quite known to wear the hat often.
But maybe he started it. You never know.
[01:25:56] Speaker B: I would just take issue with the date of birth, though, because I believe actually he was born in 1521. Because he was born the same year as a field of cloth of gold.
[01:26:04] Speaker C: Indeed.
[01:26:05] Speaker B: Because his father got back from the field of cloth of gold and a couple of months later. Yes, he was born at.
Near Stamford.
[01:26:12] Speaker C: It's been attached to the painting. Not by us.
[01:26:14] Speaker B: No.
[01:26:16] Speaker C: Just double check it. But we obviously have left it for people to be fully aware.
[01:26:20] Speaker B: It's probably been there for ages.
I'm just loving looking. What else is this? An Elizabethan horse.
[01:26:26] Speaker C: Yes. So this. It does say a large grey horse is the name of the painting, which is. Is, you know, a very apt description. The painter is unknown, but the story goes that this is the horse that Elizabeth rode at Tilbury.
[01:26:42] Speaker B: Is that right? Fantastic. Because I was going to say, obviously you see lots of large portraits of war and horses are featured, but kind of horse paintings usually you see, and I'm no expert on this, but I'm just sort of drawing upon years of wandering around historic houses. They tend to be more sort of 17th, 18th century. But here we've got an actual Elizabethan horse, one of Elizabeth's, potentially, so legend goes, as you say, one of her horses.
[01:27:09] Speaker C: It's one of those things where you would never paint a horse in its entirety on such scale if it didn't have some sort of importance like that.
So obviously the. The story goes she delivered her famous. I may have the body of a weak and feeble woman, but I have the heart and stomach of a king and a king. King of England on that beautiful horse. I want to say Spectre, but don't.
[01:27:31] Speaker B: Quote me that at 1594.
And then to the left, rather interestingly, we've got the full length, very iconic portrait of Mary Queen of Scots. We do, which was, I think post painted posthumously. I think that, I think that. I think you tell me if you know differently, but I think that particular vision, vision of her as like the Catholic martyr, was painted after her death. But you were telling me an interesting story.
[01:27:57] Speaker C: Yes. So the fun fact about this painting is that originally it hung pride of place in the Marble hall at the end, where the Rainbow portrait now is, which people find unbelievably strange.
Quite rightly, however, going back all of that time being a Jacobean house, Elizabeth is no longer alive and James probably wanting to visit this house quite often to see Robert Cecil.
It would have been a very, very good move to have the mother of your king hung pride of place in the Grand Hall.
So therefore that's where she was. She's now obviously been moved. She's the only painting in here covered with glass.
Just because of how long it would have been pride of play here. I think it's an extra layer of protection on that painting. But still, still looking over us always.
[01:28:50] Speaker B: That's a wonderful portrait. And then we've got a classic iconic portrait of William Cecil in older life in all of his robes and Robert on the other side and a little bit of Henry VI on the way.
But let's turn our attention to this. Just. It's almost like it's all nice. Seen this portrayed a few times in different places, but it's almost like it's 3D. It's almost like it's coming out at you. It does feel like it's vivid.
[01:29:16] Speaker C: The background is so well hidden. You can tell she is somewhere, but it's not really specified where she is. There's a sort of archway that could have been anywhere, really. But it's quite nice that the background of this portrait isn't what's important. It's her. And like you said, she. She sort of almost feels like she's coming through the painting at you. When you're looking up the house at night and you are in this room on your own, she does watch you. I felt her eyes on me. It's quite. Quite an intense moment.
[01:29:47] Speaker B: We will definitely include, if we may, a copy of this in our show notes so people can hear, but can you point out any of the most interesting things to note and maybe the story of when we think. Think this was painted and what it's trying to tell us?
[01:30:04] Speaker C: So back in September, it actually came back from conservation, so we actually know a little bit more about it than we did before, which is quite nice information to have. The main fact is that we didn't know who painted it. We still don't know who painted it, which is quite exciting.
They believe that it was a collaboration between quite a few artists. So it wasn't that. That the portrait was finished and then somebody came along and changed it. It was actually. Somebody worked on maybe the face and somebody worked on the bodice and somebody worked on the dress. It was a collaboration between artists because they're all. All the elements are done quite differently.
The main point of this painting, we originally thought was to be propaganda, that it was. It is full of imagery and symbolism, but we thought it was maybe during her reign, but now we know that it was actually more likely finished posthumously. So it was more of a tribute to what a brilliant queen she was and everything that she did in her time. So the main imagery and the first thing that jumps out at you is the gold cape filled with eyes and ears, which the children are like, what is that? They find it so funny. But obviously, being commissioned by Robert Cecil, this is an obvious tribute to. She can see and hear everything that's going on in her kingdom at all times. She has an immense spy network and it's important that people know that. She might not be present, but she knows everything that you're doing and she can hear everything you're talking about. So I'd say some good things about the Queen if I were you. She's got the pearls around her neck and all across her sort of headdress and ruff.
Obviously a big symbol of purity and innocence and the fact that she was never married or had any children is obviously a great big symbol of that.
The dress and her bodice is covered in English wildflowers to show that England is close to her heart. She was born and raised in England and she loves England and she's keeping it close to her at all times.
The gauntlet on her left hand side, which is quite difficult to see in some lights, is very small, but it's almost a she was willing to fight at any moment, which we'll actually see in another portrait later. But it's almost that she's. She's willing to throw down the gauntlet to people if she needs to and is ready to fight for her country and her love. Love. You've got the serpent on her arm on the right, but it is her left arm, a jewel encrusted serpent and holding the red ruby heart in its mouth. So the serpent itself is a symbol of wisdom and knowledge, like the serpent in the tree in the Garden of Eden. Very big religious imagery there.
And it would have meant that she was smart and knowledgeable and obviously full of wisdom to be queen. However, the ruby heart in its mouth shows that her heart is ruled by her head. So you'll have however many people thinking, oh, she's a woman, she can't be queen, she's too emotional, she's too driven by her heart. She'll feel things and make decisions. And she's in this portrait saying, yes, but I am knowledgeable enough that my heart is ruled by my wisdom and I make decisions based on both of them in collaboration together, which is obviously lovely. And the final main thing is obviously the rainbow, which most people would think she's holding some odd glass pipe, it is indeed a rainbow. And the Latin, which is non sine sole irres means no rainbow without the sun.
So originally we thought that. We were told that this is how the painting always looked, that there was this sort of faint rainbow being held in her hand and that she wouldn't let it shine because she is the sun and she is the most important thing. Therefore she is the rainbow sort of incorporated. However, when it was taken to be conserved, you remove the frame and you see the canvas as it is. It's obviously stretched around the sides and there is this beautiful full color rainbow just, just on the corner of the.
Of the painting, which proves that just over time the colors have faded, which is obviously a shame. But it's also quite nice to know that there would have been a time when this was completely filled with colour. And even though there's no rainbow without the sun, therefore she's actually causing the rainbow, which is an even nicer image to see actually.
And one thing we do know is that the, this gold cape that you can see there's obviously is sort of the reason I think it feels 3D because it's almost coming out of the painting. It was actually originally red, almost like a sort of maroon color.
And like I said, we now know it was finished posthumously.
It was actually added as quite a late addition and that it's actually covered in 24 karat gold leaf.
So it's, it's added on but the eyes and the ears are painted onto the original maroon dress. So this has actually been decorated around so that all of the shadows, all of the creases in the dress have been made using that gold leaf. Which is I think the most incredible artistry I've ever seen.
[01:35:28] Speaker B: But just awesome, isn't it?
[01:35:29] Speaker C: And it's not in the original frame, but it is an exact replica of the original frame. I believe that the, the original one just is slightly damaged but is looking to be repaired. But it's always hung in this sort of gorgeous olive leaf gold frame. But what's interesting is that the, the crest at the top was never filled in.
And again, if it was finished posthumously, do they put Elizabeth's or do they put James's? So. And I sort of. They've left it blank, which is, which is quite nice.
[01:35:59] Speaker B: I think it's my favorite.
[01:36:00] Speaker C: It is my favourite.
[01:36:02] Speaker B: I think for probably a lot of, of people would, I think probably say the same.
[01:36:05] Speaker C: We need a whole separate podcast for how much I'd love to talk about it to be honest, because there's so much in it, but to especially to learn more about it as well. So some. There's like a sort of vein on the side of her forehead that you can see that was never seen in the original.
When we, when we sent it off, you couldn't see that she was just pale, she was just quite normal. But that vein now shown especially on her sort of like her chest and.
[01:36:29] Speaker B: Her.
[01:36:31] Speaker C: Like breast area as well, which is a little bit scandalous to be honest. But you know, these sort of extra sort of minute details of her body is really interesting. And obviously in this painting she's very, very late into her life and she definitely wouldn't have looked like this. So to paint her in this glorious way at the, you know, the late 60 age is quite, quite a good tribute to her.
[01:36:56] Speaker B: It's really stunning. I love her hair. I just Love the ringlets as they fall down over her breast. I think it's just wonderful. What a portrait. But you've not just got this one, have you? You've got another.
[01:37:08] Speaker C: We do indeed. We have one more upstairs.
[01:37:09] Speaker B: Oh, let's go.
[01:37:23] Speaker C: Sam.
[01:37:49] Speaker B: Sa.
These are fantastic, aren't they, for just seeing what Tudor life looks like. You could just. Again, you could just sort of see. When I last saw it, it was here. That's where it.
[01:38:45] Speaker C: Oh, interesting.
[01:38:46] Speaker B: So I don't know when it was last there, but that's where it was last.
[01:38:50] Speaker C: The portrait.
[01:38:50] Speaker B: Yeah, the Rimba portrait was on there.
[01:38:52] Speaker C: I think I've ever heard of it being there.
[01:38:54] Speaker B: Really?
[01:38:54] Speaker C: So exciting.
[01:38:55] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, Definitely.
[01:38:56] Speaker C: Shut the gates.
They never shut the gates. Sorry, even I need a photo of this. I've never seen the.
[01:39:02] Speaker B: Oh, really?
[01:39:03] Speaker C: So the gates are. They're literally dog gates. Gates.
So if you had dogs, the hunting dogs would stay downstairs and the spaniels, you know, your nice cuddly sit on the sofa with you dog come up with you. So you couldn't put the gates at the bottom because they just jump over. So you have to put it halfway up so that they can't jump from the stairs over too high. Yeah.
[01:39:26] Speaker B: Isn't that fantastic?
[01:39:27] Speaker C: Oh, I've never seen them. That's so exciting. I'm so glad you've got to see. Yes.
[01:39:34] Speaker B: They'Re still in such amazing condition.
[01:39:36] Speaker C: Yeah, they are original because the whole.
All of a stairway is pretty much. But you.
[01:39:42] Speaker B: You.
[01:39:43] Speaker C: The mechanism is not used very often, so to see it open is quite nice because obviously no one ever touches it.
[01:39:51] Speaker B: We're making our way up the grand principal staircase, I assume we are. Yes.
[01:39:56] Speaker C: The famous Canton lever design, which obviously means it supports itself coming out. There's no support underneath, actually taken from one of the designs at Tybalt. So I think when Robert Cecil built it, he thought, I need a bit of my house back in here. So he brought the original design over to be used here. So the support's actually come out of the wall.
[01:40:16] Speaker B: I see. Right. Yeah.
Because now it's dark wood. Was it always dark wood or was it painted? You know, we hear a lot of the Tudor interiors. A lot of the wood would have been painted a lot brighter than we.
We see it today. Is that the same or is this meant to be?
[01:40:30] Speaker C: I think it's always meant to be this color. I believe there's a story that it was going to be painted or they started to. And I think it was it. People were not impressed. Or whoever was currently Here at the time was not that impressed with it. So they have indeed kept it exactly as it is. But it's, it's bright wood showing, which is lovely.
[01:40:47] Speaker B: Pretty magnificent.
[01:40:48] Speaker C: And obviously you've got the famous John Traverscant the Elder.
[01:40:52] Speaker B: Who's this?
[01:40:53] Speaker C: He's the.
[01:40:54] Speaker B: What are we looking at? First of all, it's a.
[01:40:57] Speaker C: It's a pillar on top of the. I couldn't think of the word then it's a pillar on top of the top of the staircase. On the left hand side it's a. Is a gardener holding a rake in his lovely Jacobean hat. When Robert Cecil was building the house and designing the gardens, which he had a very, very big say in, John Tradescant the Elder was a very, very important designer of the garden and he brought lots and lots of plants over from Europe, so they'd never been sort of planted or grown in England before. So he brought a lot of them over. Hence why the gardens are so immensely beautiful because lots of foreign plants were brought over for the first time.
[01:41:37] Speaker B: And he gets his remembrance here on the staircase.
[01:41:40] Speaker C: He does.
[01:41:41] Speaker B: Wonderful.
Right, so let's head through these double doors.
[01:41:49] Speaker C: A double double.
[01:41:50] Speaker B: Oh, a double double door.
These are very splendid.
Aha. More wonderful portraits.
[01:42:09] Speaker C: There are over 65 paintings in this room, I believe, which is the. The most that you can see on show at any one time.
[01:42:17] Speaker B: That's really awesome. And I think you've brought me here to see this portrait of Elizabeth, which indeed is the ermine portrait.
[01:42:26] Speaker C: It's the ermine portrait. So as you come in, it's on your left hand side, pride of place as soon as you enter. And she's flanked either side by her grandparents, which is also quite nice. So you've got. Got Henry VII on her right and Elizabeth of York on the left. So he's holding the red rose of Lancaster and she's holding the white rose of York, which is quite lovely. And my favourite little fact is that the wallpaper behind them looks like the curtains. It's not, but it's very, very similar. And I wonder if it was maybe taken as inspiration.
[01:42:54] Speaker B: Yes, I see that the actual curtains in the room is almost, as you say, it's almost entirely the same as the background of the paint.
[01:43:02] Speaker C: But yes, Elizabeth's ermine portrait, again, very similar to the one downstairs. She's a bit younger in this one and we know who painted this one. This was Nicholas Hilliard.
But again, that sort of imagery and symbolism definitely comes through. So she's holding the olive branch in her right hand. So, again, big symbol of peace and prosperity.
And then she's got the ermine on her left arm, which is a mix between a ferret and a weasel and a stoat, and sort of all of them mixed in one. But the coat is probably what people will recognize more, which is that white fur with the sort of black specks, which actually, if you look at Elizabeth of York's painting, is lining the wrists of her cloak, obviously a very big royal symbol. And I think it's actually on the crown now sort of lines the ruff of a crown.
And they only are this color at certain times of the year, which makes them very, very rare.
And the idea behind her having the ermine, physically there is almost. I don't need to kill the ermine to prove that I'm royal and line it with something. He can line me and we can be friends. And his tail is literally wrapped around her wrist, and he's got his own crown around his neck. He's been made royal himself, which is quite lovely.
And obviously directly next to her hand, almost touching, but not quite, is obviously the Sword of State as well. And we know that this painting was painted in 1585 because it's written very clearly, I say very clearly, quite sneakily, on the hilt of the sword.
[01:44:38] Speaker B: Oh, so it is. You have to get right in. But, yes, you can see. How clever is that.
How wonderful. And, you know, I'm assuming this was the Sword of State, which is wonderful to see because, of course, we've lost so much of that Tudor regalia.
[01:44:52] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[01:44:53] Speaker B: So fantastic to see. Although we can only see the hilt and the top of the blade.
It's great to see it.
[01:45:01] Speaker C: Speaking of things that have been lost, you've got this.
[01:45:06] Speaker B: It's the three Brothers.
[01:45:07] Speaker C: It's the three brothers. I knew you were gonna get excited. I kept it secret from you this whole time.
So you have the three brothers directly in the middle of the portrait, including the drop and everything.
[01:45:18] Speaker B: I love the three brothers.
I did write a blog about the three brothers. I got completely obsessed by name jewels for a period of time and came across this particular jewel and then noticed how it was in two or three of Elizabeth's portraits. And maybe we should describe it. It's three square rubies that are posited in almost a triangular shape. And in the center, I presume that's a black diamond, if I remember rightly. And then you've got pearl in between each of the ruby stones, this big drop pearl.
So it's got, like, most named jewels. It's got such a fascinating history and I have written a blog about this, so if you want all the details, it was a very popular blog at the time. Again, I'll include that in the description, but I believe it came from the continent and it eventually was bought, I think, by Henry viii and therefore it came into the Royal collection.
And Elizabeth has it, as I mentioned, in two or three portraits. And actually, if you also see her monument in Westminster Abbey, she's wearing three brothers. Although I do understand that that chain was added quite recently when it was conserved. But whether it was originally there or not, I'm really not sure.
But unfortunately, again, it was when the Stuarts came to the throne. I think James the First really loved it and I think you see him, I think you see him, he has.
[01:46:52] Speaker C: It in a couple of paintings.
[01:46:53] Speaker B: Yeah. But then, of course, we hit the English Civil War and the crown falls in really hard times financially and eventually, I think he has to. He sells off a lot of the jewels.
[01:47:04] Speaker C: It's too sad.
[01:47:05] Speaker B: And it just disappears and we don't know what happened to it.
[01:47:07] Speaker C: Indeed.
[01:47:09] Speaker B: I'm crying on Georgina's shoulder here.
[01:47:11] Speaker C: It is quite nice, though, to have it here in this portrait, sort of surrounded by other black diamonds and rubies and pearls. So it almost gets lost in it. Yeah, it does. Which is quite subtle. I wonder if it's a nice sort of. I don't need to wear this protruding in front of me. It's a part of me and who I am.
[01:47:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And you're quite right. Until you pointed it out, I did kind of get lost. And you've got all those things, so many other jewels around it. It's like, look at me, I've got so many jewels and wow, they are fantastic. I mean, for those people who don't know. Many people will know. But for many, many years, I didn't know what these black stones were when I was looking at portraits. I thought it was some specific set. It's actually a diamond. So I'm just saying that for those people who maybe are quite new to Tudor Hill history and are going around looking at Tudor portraits and wondering what those black stones are, it was because they didn't have the same cut of the diamond, I believe now, so it didn't refract the light.
[01:48:12] Speaker C: I thought it was coal for ages.
[01:48:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Jet or something like that. No, they're diamonds, so. Oh, how fantastic. That's brilliant.
Wonderful. Okay, Is there anything else we need to see?
[01:48:23] Speaker C: Did you want to see the gloves?
[01:48:24] Speaker B: Of course I want to see the Gloves.
[01:48:31] Speaker C: Just to say this is completely non Tudor related. But I don't. I Obviously, just. While we're here, you can have a mini. A mini tour, obviously. Sorry. For the scaffolding for the filming and everything.
You might remember the chase desk. So this desk behind this lovely chair.
[01:48:44] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:48:45] Speaker C: Is the most modern thing in the room. This was built in 2008. Oh, really? Yes. So it's. It's done in Market tree. So the layering of wood on top of wood on top of wood.
It's made from all the trees that you can find at Cranbourne Manor down in Dorset, because that's where the current Marquess of Salisbury would have been before he became Marquess of Salisbury. So he would have been Lord Cranbourne first.
So he had this desk made with all the wood from Cranbourne. It's depicting a Jacobean hunting scene with real members of his family. Oh, brilliant. Dressed in Jacobian.
[01:49:21] Speaker B: Dressed.
[01:49:21] Speaker C: Hilarious. It's a boar hunt. So if you look at the. Oh, they've altered the mirror. You can't see. But hang on, if I tilt this. Yeah, you can actually see. Oh, yeah, the boar at the back.
[01:49:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:49:34] Speaker C: That's the pagoda at Cranbourne.
[01:49:37] Speaker B: Right.
[01:49:38] Speaker C: And you've got Cranbourne Manor down the front. So it's just a nice little. I always love saying, what's the oldest thing in the room? And they go, oh, it's the desk. I'm like, it's really not. It's 2008, my love. That's completely. Oh, they've taken bits of the chandelier down.
This is very exciting.
[01:49:53] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:49:58] Speaker C: Oh, that's Catherine. Oh, it's taking me ages. It's so high up I can never see who it is.
[01:50:05] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness.
So we've just come into long gallery and that ceiling is the first thing that just jumps out at you. Please tell us about this room.
[01:50:16] Speaker C: So originally it would have been slightly shorter, so these pillars that we've just walked through would have actually blocked off the suit. Two sort of antechambers at the end. And eventually it was opened up to. To create an even longer long gallery.
Would have been used as any long gallery for walking and promenading.
And.
[01:50:37] Speaker B: Oh, how lovely.
[01:50:39] Speaker C: Enjoying your days. Also would have been used to hold maybe. Maybe a dinner or a party or two. I think there is one account of somebody saying that it had a good floor for a galliard because it's slightly sprung and therefore it's quite nice to dance on.
[01:50:54] Speaker B: Oh, how lovely.
[01:50:55] Speaker C: This was the room I was discussing that was similar to the old palace earlier, where you've got windows that look out onto the marble hall below.
[01:51:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:51:03] Speaker C: And so this is what we call the north gallery.
[01:51:04] Speaker B: I can see the squints there. Yeah.
[01:51:06] Speaker C: And these have doors on either side. They're quite subtle. You might have to give a good look. Look, there's definitely a door handle on your right hand side. You can very clearly see. And these entire walls come off to close off this gallery. So it would have been used as a sort of servant hub on the other side while something was going on in the long gallery itself.
Originally the ceiling would have been white and therefore, if I may say, slightly boring.
However, you've obviously got the, the crests of the family adorning around the light fixtures and things.
However, when Queen Victoria visited in 1848, very big deal, everybody was very, very excited and the Earl at the time decided that he needed to make a massive gesture. There's something that Victoria was definitely going to remember. And she'd just been and visited quite a lot of places in Italy and other places in Europe who had a lot of gold ceilings. And he decided, I can do that. So you've got new nine carat gold leaf adorning the whole of the ceiling, which would have cost at the time 1500 pounds. And now I can't even imagine how many zeros have been added to that number.
[01:52:13] Speaker B: Oh, well, I prefer the bling, but.
[01:52:16] Speaker C: That'S just exactly when the sun hits it just right. It's glorious.
[01:52:19] Speaker B: Beautiful.
[01:52:21] Speaker C: And at the other end of this gallery we have.
You have artifacts. Indeed.
[01:52:28] Speaker B: What are we looking at?
[01:52:29] Speaker C: So we're looking at a lovely hat, a purse, some stockings and a pair of gloves which basically date back at various times.
And we've sort of collected them over the years, which is quite nice.
What's most likely to have been Elizabeth's, if any, is the gloves.
And I think most people assume that and definitely recognize the long fingers, as she was known to have very lovely, long, slender fingers.
But yes, apparently it was left at Shadwell Lodge when she went to visit in 1578 in Norwich.
[01:53:10] Speaker B: And we've just come from there.
[01:53:11] Speaker C: So how they ended up here, I'm not quite sure, but maybe somebody, you know, delivered them thinking that they would get back to her and they've just somehow been been lost in a wardrobe. But here they are.
We do also have a pair of stockings, but they are more likely 18th century. Same with the hat, which is actually made of straw people. It does look like it's almost embroidered or sort of Created from a lovely sort of silk material, but it is indeed straw. Just woven unbelievably well. But again, sort of similar time to the stockings, about 18th century.
[01:53:44] Speaker B: Wow. Wonderful. That's fantastic. Well, will we be able to come get a picture perhaps, of the glove that we might include? Do you have that course?
[01:53:51] Speaker C: Yes, I've got one of the whole cabinet, so you can see. Okay. That would be useful because the way it's positioned, the light's not the best, but we can have a gorgeous image of it for you.
[01:54:01] Speaker B: Yeah, that would be great. Thank you so much. Wow. So does this bring us to the end of our tour today?
[01:54:06] Speaker C: I think so, definitely. Everything Elizabeth related has definitely come to an end, but you can tell that she's definitely had some influence in here, which is quite nice. So she's still a part of the house, even though she never lived here herself?
[01:54:20] Speaker B: Yeah, she endures and lingers, which is lovely because obviously it was a Stuart family who kind of, you know, this is a Stuart, a Jacobean house. But clearly the Cecil family had those ties to Elizabeth and didn't want to forget them.
[01:54:34] Speaker C: They're part of. She's a part of their origins and I think they've never forgotten that because she's the one who gave them the original sort of position.
And then even though James made them earls and then later on King George made them marquesses, it's a nice. Don't forget where you came from, which was Elizabeth making William Cecil her right. Minister. And that sort of started this whole journey for them.
[01:54:56] Speaker B: Started it off absolutely.
Well, thank you so much, Georgina, for being our guide today. What fun.
[01:55:01] Speaker C: You're very welcome.
[01:55:02] Speaker B: We've had a blast. But before we go, as tradition, it'd be lovely to find out about how people can find out more. Are you open all year round? Anything else you want to tell us about events that might be coming up later in the year or even next year? Because people do, of course, plan ahead.
[01:55:18] Speaker C: So, unfortunately, the house isn't open the whole year, but the park, we have now tried to do as many things as we can that span pretty much February to November and even going into Christmas. So the house is most likely open from through the months of June, July, August and sometimes into September, and that's Thursdays to Sundays. The gardens themselves are open from around about Easter to the end of September, and they're open Wednesdays to Sundays. And the east garden specifically, which is the private side family garden on the east wing, is only open on Wednesdays. So if you. If you do like your horticultural aspects, definitely come on a Wednesday to see both gardens.
The old palace is open for tours occasionally only because it's now used as a venue. And for all of the information about when we're open, when you can find tours, the website is obviously the best place to go. I'm assuming Sarah will link it, but it's www.hatfieldpark.co.uk nice and simple.
And again, there's emails on there, there's, there's a telephone number that comes through to me and my team. So it's obviously any questions that you've got, anything you want to know, just let us know because we're happy to help. We also have a full scale year chock, a block full of events and festivals and things. Some run by us, some run by other people.
So if you fancy coming to any of those, definitely check out our events page as well because all of the information's on there and anytime you want to come, you just let us know.
[01:56:50] Speaker B: Oh, that's lovely. Thank you so much.
So, yeah, once again, thank you for being our tour guide. Thank you for having me and I hope, dear listeners, that you will get a chance to come and look, and come and look at that beautifully restored portrait of Elizabeth. I think it just is the pearl of Hatfield.
[01:57:08] Speaker C: Please do, Sam.
[01:57:51] Speaker A: Well, my friends, I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I enjoyed exploring Hatfield and recording it for you.
[01:58:00] Speaker B: Of course.
[01:58:01] Speaker A: My massive thanks go to Georgina, who was such an incredibly knowledgeable and enthusiastic guide for the day. Thank you, Georgina. It was a pleasure to spend time with you at Hatfield.
And as you probably heard, the memories of Hatfield have lingered with me, particularly standing under the oak tree where Elizabeth heard of her accession. I do urge you to visit the house. It's so beautiful and full of treasures and that particular spot for Tudor lovers like you and I is really, really very, very special.
Well, that's it.
We're done for another episode.
I will be back next month. This time we are heading further north into Derbyshire to another I say Tudor treasure. Medieval and Tudor treasure. Haddon hall again, another place much beloved by time travellers like you and I. And I can't wait to show you around.
So until then, my friends, have a wonderful month. I hope you have some adventures in.
[01:59:11] Speaker B: Time here in the UK as we.
[01:59:14] Speaker A: Are now creeping into the high summer season.
Okay, well, until next time.
[01:59:27] Speaker C: Foreign.
[01:59:38] Speaker A: Thank you for tuning in to today's.
[01:59:40] Speaker B: Episode of the Tudor History and Travel Show. If you've loved the show, please take a moment to subscribe like and rate this podcast so that we can spread the Tudor love.
Until next time, my friends.
All that remains for me to say is happy time traveling Sa.
