Episode Transcript
[00:00:21] Speaker A: The Tudor History and Travel show is a podcast that brings Tudor History to life by exploring Tudor places and artefacts in the flesh.
You will be travelling through time with Sarah Morris, the Tudor Travel Guide, uncovering the stories behind some of the most amazing Tudor locations and objects in the uk.
Because when you visit a Tudor building, it is only time and not space which separates you from the past.
And now, over to your host, Sarah Morris.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: Welcome, dear friends, to July's episode of the Tudor History and Travel show with me, Sarah the Tudor Travel Guide.
Now, before we get into today's episode, I do have a couple of little announcements, one which you will be extremely keen to hear about because our giveaway is back.
Yes, you may remember that last year we ran a giveaway, a sweepstake for one lucky person to win a free place on our Rise and Fall of Amberlynn tour for this year.
Now we are repeating that giveaway this year for the Rise and fall of AmberLynn 2027.
So if you're feeling lucky and you'd like to visit in person some of the most important and pivotal locations associated with Amberlynn, then all you need to do is follow the link in the description associated with this podcast. First, fill in the form with your email address and contact details and you will be entered into the sweepstake, which is running over the summer period and will be drawn in mid September.
Of course, if you want to see our terms and conditions, you can follow the link on the sign up page.
All right, well, good luck if you decide to enter. It proved very popular last year, but hey, you never know, this could be your year and I hope to meet you in person in 2027.
But speaking of the rise and fall of Anne Boleyn, I just want to mention that we have two places left on this year's tour.
So if you're thinking of something that you'd like to do at the end of the summer, a real treat, perhaps a dream come true, then why not join us on tour? You will find all the information you need once again in a link associated with this podcast which will you through to the tour information page where you can find out all the details about that particular tour.
Right, well, that's all I have to say in terms of announcements. It is time to go time travelling and in today's episode I visit Chirk Castle, which is in the north east part of Wales, not too far from the English border.
I first came across this perhaps less known historic location about a year, year and a half ago when I was researching some of the men associated with Henry vii, Welshman, who stood by Henry when he landed back in Wales and set off to win the crown from the House of York.
Of course, one of those families was the Stanleys, and for a relatively short period of time, they owned Chur Castle. Well, it was the Stanleys who were my gateway into finding more about this fascinating building.
[00:04:07] Speaker C: It turns out that there have been
[00:04:08] Speaker B: many owners over the centuries, some very distinguished, but one of the most significant families associated with Chirk occupied the castle during the Elizabethan period.
And actually one individual member, Thomas Middleton, who really exemplified how an Elizabethan gentleman might make the most of the opportunities that were on hand. And you'll hear much more about this in this story.
And I think it's a fascinating tale, not quite of rags to riches, but of a true Elizabethan entrepreneur who certainly made a fortune by being able to be in the right place at the right time and investing his money was wisely.
Chirk is a fascinating castle with layers of history, and you'll hear us explore some of those as we go.
And today we have not one, but two guest experts, Malcolm and Huw, who will be our guides.
So I think now is the time to buckle up and get ready to travel back in time as we go over to Chirk Castle and join our first first guide today, who will introduce both himself and the history of the castle.
[00:05:31] Speaker C: Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to this episode of the Tudor History and Travel Show. So today I'm in the county of Wrexham in Wales, and I've come to a property that I didn't know anything about. In fact, I have to admit, I didn't even know existed till about a year ago.
We are at Chirk Castle and we have not one, but two expert guides with us today. And you'll be hearing from both of those as we go on our adventure through time.
And so, actually, without further ado, let me welcome Huw to today's episode. Thank you for being here and for being our expert guide today, Huw.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:06:12] Speaker D: I'm Hugh. I live just down the road, literally 10 minutes down the road, and I've just a month ago retired after 16 years of working at the castle as a guide, sort of general factotum. Before that, I was a teacher, and as I'm from the area, I can tell you that this is a wonderful place you're coming to, and you should have come here before now.
[00:06:32] Speaker C: I know I should have.
I feel very guilty. Forgive me. But hopefully, you see, I think there'll be quite a few of my listeners out there have also Never heard about Chirk. So I'm really excited that we're going to be introducing a whole new audience to the castle and hopefully, dear listeners, inspiring you to come along and visit.
Now, obviously, we're going to be exploring the history of the castle, focusing in on its Tudor element. And there is one particular character from the late Elizabethan period which we're really going to be diving into. But before we get to any of that, as ever, I like to kind of set the geography of where we are.
And I think there's something you wanted to show me that we could use as our springboard to talk about this particular area and why it's significant.
[00:07:21] Speaker D: Well, you couldn't have a better springboard, Sarah, than that is right behind you now, that rather indistinguishable green lump where they're cutting the bracken back from the trees there now is what we have left down here of Offa's Dyke, a huge, probably the biggest earthwork in Britain, stretching from Chepstow in South Wales right up to Prestatyn in North Wales. It's separated by cliff edges and river courses, etc. But it's essentially a barrier built allegedly in one year by King Offa, the King of Mercia, to differentiate his land from that of the. The Welsh. Now, to your left, to your right here, back here, is traditionally old Wales.
We are standing on the line of the dyke, no man's land, I suppose, in a sense. And just up the hill where the castle will ultimately be built is England. So bear in mind that when this castle was built, it was in England.
So the castle essentially is English in construction, although since 1595, when the Middletons, to whom you referred earlier on, took possession of the castle, it has been quintessentially Welsh.
[00:08:35] Speaker C: Right, okay.
[00:08:36] Speaker D: When we get up to the castle, you will see the line of the dyke far better laid out in the landscape.
[00:08:42] Speaker C: Right, now, currently we're in kind of the. Near the ticket office where your cafe is, and we've got a bit of a walk up to the castle. So we are actually going to take a stroll right up the castle. So shall we. Shall we walk? And perhaps we can talk a little bit more about the Marsha area, because that's, I think, a term that people will read about a lot when they're reading about anything to do with kind of the boundary between England and Wales. So perhaps we could start by just identifying and talking a little bit about what the marsher area is and the
[00:09:16] Speaker D: Marshal Lords, essentially, just after the Norman Conquest, the Normans who didn't really have much luck in conquering Wales.
Established buffer areas, large areas of land between England and Wales, roughly along the line of the dyke. Actually I've just mentioned here, probably one of the greatest marcher lords was a man you were hearing a lot about from the description of the castle here, Sir Roger Mortimer. Now these marcher lords were basically kings in their own right.
Later Roger Mortimer was described as being a prince in Wales as opposed to the Prince of Wales we have today. And they were trusted to look after the area and keep it basically safe from, from attacking the English forces to the east.
[00:10:12] Speaker C: So we have a marsh area that runs right the way from South Wales, right the way up to North Wales. It covers the whole breadth as you say, almost in parallel to Offa.
[00:10:22] Speaker D: No English authority would have covered the entire thing of course, if you were obeyed your king. But there were several march lordships from mid Wales of Herefordshire. Then you have up here to the march of lordships, as I said of the Mortimers up here, encroaching ever on the land of the Welsh born princes.
[00:10:44] Speaker C: And you mentioned Roger Mortimer. Now that is a name that most people will have heard of. Is it the Roger Mortimer? The lover of.
[00:10:51] Speaker E: Is it queen?
[00:10:52] Speaker C: Is a little. Was it Queen Isabella? It's not my particular forte, but I have got that right.
[00:10:57] Speaker D: You have got that right. Okay. The difficulty of course is that there are several Roger Mortimers. There are Roger Mortimers before him and Roger Mortimers after him. Roger Mortimer de Chirk, however, is the uncle of the infamous Roger Mortimer. We know of the, the greatest traitor. And he was responsible for the building of Chirk castle from about 1295 onwards. He was promoted to chief justice here of Wales in 1308. So we assume that building picked up a bit and increased in speed by then. But certainly by 1310 a castle stood on this spot.
[00:11:39] Speaker C: Okay, well we're walking up a nice long hill, so if you hear me a little bit, you know why. But let's save our discussion about the construction of the castle and kind of why it was strategically important. We've touched on it already, but maybe go into a little bit more detail about that when we get to the top.
[00:11:58] Speaker D: It's a very good idea.
[00:13:21] Speaker C: So here we've made it to the top of the hill.
A little bit out of breath, but here we go and we have this, you know, fabulous, imposing, mighty. You said it was 13th century castle, 13th century.
[00:13:35] Speaker D: Commencement 1295.
[00:13:37] Speaker C: Right. Okay.
[00:13:38] Speaker D: The finishing date of the castle is 1310.
[00:13:40] Speaker C: So I'm presuming you were talking about Roger Mortimer and we're talking about him as a martial lord. This, I'm presuming this was like his strategic center where his, he commanded his operations, his visible display of power and wealth in the area.
[00:13:59] Speaker D: You put display very nicely into that description.
Not only would this have been a very solid reminder to those people around here of who is in charge, essentially Roger de Mortimer here, although he did have another castle in Ludlow which is much bigger and in a much better ruined condition.
[00:14:19] Speaker C: So he owned Ludlow Castle.
[00:14:21] Speaker D: The family.
[00:14:21] Speaker C: Right, okay, the family. Yes.
[00:14:22] Speaker D: But this castle would have been almost twice the size of the castle you see today. Today I mentioned 1310 to you as a date. But what we're looking at the moment from the bottom of the hill here is a stable block, an 18th century stable block designed by a Mr. Turner from Chester. You'll see more of his work inside the house later on. But do you see that great rend down from the medieval masonry?
[00:14:48] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:14:48] Speaker D: We're going to be right down the castle there.
[00:14:50] Speaker C: Right.
[00:14:50] Speaker D: The belief is, and I sorry, I have to be vague about this belief because we don't have the factual records of this, is that the front of the castle, this would have been the front of the castle collapsed about 1301.
[00:15:04] Speaker C: Oh, so it didn't survive that long then?
[00:15:06] Speaker D: No, no, we put it down to poor English builders. That's another story.
And what was left was a three sided castle, probably defended in its gap with an earth bank, a little like the dike, I suppose, with a wooden palisade across the top. It wasn't really defended again heavily until the 1400s, the early 1400s, when Owen Glendor, who lived about six miles down the road from here, began his rising against Henry iv.
[00:15:37] Speaker C: Ah, I see, so that got him. For he. This castle was involved in the Glendore uprising.
[00:15:43] Speaker D: No, I'm sorry, we don't. Again, we don't have any records.
We do know that the Arundel family that owned Chirk Castle on and off from about 1320 up to the end of the wars of the Roses, certainly had associations with owing Glyndwr's family. And we had a historian here not long ago whose supposition is that Glyndwr was probably tutored here with the Arundel children. Fabulously wealthy family too.
[00:16:13] Speaker C: Okay.
As a Tudor travel guide, I'm a little bit obsessed by buildings and we've, we've begun to talk a little bit about it and I guess this is a good time to remind you, dear listeners, that as Ever. There's a show notes page associated with this podcast, so do make sure you check out the link in the description to see some of the images which we'll be capturing as we go around. But perhaps you could just give us a description of the castle because as we came in today, up an 18th century drive, not the original entrance to the castle, you get quite a. A beautiful view, a vista of the castle. Maybe you could just explain what that looks like to the visitor.
[00:16:50] Speaker D: Well, that driveway that you came up was deliberately designed to give an 18th century beautiful view of the castle.
The whole estate was remodeled by the Middleton family. Malcolm will be telling you more about that, no doubt inside to look the part, as it were, the part of an English country gentleman settled here. The Offa's dyke, which I mentioned and we'll be going to shortly, was submerged in one particular point by a lake, an artificial lake to make it look better than it was. But looking up at the castle, it's fairly standard 13th century look. Except for the front. I'd like your opinion on the. The front, when we get around there actually rounded towers, half rounded towers in the center of the curtain walls here.
Probably from what I am led to believe, the whole thing would have been whitewashed as well as a reminder to the Welsh and of course to the other barons in the area, probably more the latter of who was in power here. And we have one remaining feature which you can see from down here, which you can't see on any other. The towers. They may have been destroyed after the English Civil War. Again, it's opposition. Do you see the tower right in front of you now? That's called the Adam Tower, Right. We believe it's called the Adam Tower because it was the first one to be built here. And on top of the Adam Tower, where the flag is now flying, you have a watchtower. The belief is that every one certainly of the corner towers had a watchtower like that. All the others have gone that remains. I'm afraid you can't get at it now because of the. The stonework of the stairs is a little badly worn.
But nonetheless, the interpretation of the site is that that would have been apparent on all the other towers.
[00:18:42] Speaker C: I see.
[00:18:43] Speaker D: Why it was left, I don't know.
[00:18:45] Speaker C: Okay, well, maybe this is a good time to go around because you said when we go around the front. Let's, let's keep moving.
Welsh flag flying proudly top of the castle.
[00:18:57] Speaker D: Yes. You know, it's only been the Welsh flag since the 1950s.
[00:19:00] Speaker C: Is it really?
What was that Was there not a flag before?
[00:19:04] Speaker D: It was a union flag, wasn't it?
[00:19:05] Speaker C: It was just a union flag, yeah.
[00:19:07] Speaker D: You can see the batters here quite clearly, too.
The down, sort of vertical angle down from the top of the tower, straight down and the wall pushes out slightly. That's not just an architectural design feature, that's to stop any siege engines to get closer to the castle. Oh, I see this doorway you can see here, very nicely protected here, wasn't put in until the late 18th century. And it's essentially for goods to be brought in from the farm area where we started off this tour, brought up here and carried through to save. Bringing them round through the.
The inhabited quarters.
[00:19:45] Speaker C: Very sensible.
[00:19:46] Speaker D: What you do see at Chirk are lots of windows. Now, of course, they're not medieval features. We don't know. I'm sure I'm disappointing you by not knowing all these things, but we don't know who's responsible for putting them in either. The Middletons, when, from 1595, they turned this into a family home or a previous owner. Not the immediate previous owner, but the Stanley family, of whom I think you're interested.
[00:20:10] Speaker C: We'll talk. Yes, we'll touch on the Stanleys.
[00:20:13] Speaker D: The Stanleys were here for 20 years.
[00:20:14] Speaker C: You're right.
[00:20:16] Speaker D: 75 to 95.
[00:20:17] Speaker C: Well, maybe we should say, because that was originally when I was thinking about coming to church. I, as most of my listeners will know, I moved to Wales last year and this year I've been doing a lot of podcasting.
She was looking amazed.
[00:20:34] Speaker D: I didn't know.
[00:20:34] Speaker C: Did you not know?
[00:20:35] Speaker E: No.
[00:20:36] Speaker C: So we moved to Cardigan last year. Well, near Cardigan.
So I am now trying this year to do a focus on Wales. And of course, from a Tudor point of view, the.
The behemoth of. Yeah, is. Is. Is Henry vii. So, yes, of course, I've been doing some podcasting on Henry vii and I was interested in some of the men from Wales who rallied to Henry's cause when he came back. And of course, the Stanleys, yes, were one of those. They were family that pitched up at Bosworth and swung the day for Henry and. Yes, and that's why I was originally thought, oh, let's come to Chirk, because they owned the castle, as you just pointed out, for a period of time, but quite a short period of time.
[00:21:25] Speaker D: 20 years. Yeah, I'm.
I'm interested that you say he swung the battle for the future Henry vii.
There's an increasing move, certainly around here. Quite surprising, really, for the House of York to have so many Adherents in Wales we would prefer to say by sublime treachery and underhandedness.
Lord Darby, our Stanley gentleman waited until the last possible minute and then swept onto the battlefield and took victory away from an immensely brave and possibly future noble king. I think we're probably going to differ in our views.
I'm afraid I am.
[00:22:10] Speaker C: Oh no, I'm so sorry.
[00:22:15] Speaker D: Well I've never been patronized on the radio before this.
I go for where the, the talent and the honesty shows. And didn't Stanley prove himself 20 years later on with his association with the perk in Warbeck?
[00:22:30] Speaker C: Yes. No, no.
[00:22:31] Speaker D: Wasn't he dragged from the well? No, he wasn't actually taken and then executed really.
[00:22:36] Speaker C: Yes he was.
[00:22:37] Speaker D: Now in that in fact he follows the. Oh I think about 10 of the first owners of Chirk Castle all seem to meet particularly bloody ends.
[00:22:47] Speaker C: Oh really? Oh tell us about some of them.
[00:22:50] Speaker D: Well as the Duke of Somerset after the Battle of St. Albans, the battle is over in of front fine. And then they drag him out again and they execute him. There's the first of the Arendelles to look after Chirk given to them by the Crown.
When Mortimer did come back with Isabella he had him, I'm saying sort of effectively dragged out and murdered later Arundel, one of my heroes, I must look up him, one of the Thomas Arundels.
He was a colleague and battlefellow of King Henry V and only missed out on standing with him at Agincourt by sadly dying at Calais before then. But a lot of them died ignominiously. The one we've just been talking about, Stanley with had a direct associate with a man who owned this castle for 10, 15 years. The Duke of Gloucester, Richard III.
[00:23:48] Speaker C: The future Richard III.
[00:23:49] Speaker D: The future Richard III. If you can have your Henry VII at Bosworth, I'll have that there Richard. Although owning this place and we do mention that to visitors because everybody's heard of Richard III these days I'm afraid. Never visited Chirk, it was just one
[00:24:03] Speaker C: of his in his portfolio of lands and estates.
[00:24:07] Speaker D: Swapped it for land in Yorkshire with Stanley.
[00:24:11] Speaker C: So I enjoyed that interchange changer about the Stanley's. But I do, I do agree with you, I do agree with you. He did hedge his bets until the last moment.
[00:24:23] Speaker D: It's like John Major waiting for a phone call from Margaret Thatcher. Good heavens.
[00:24:28] Speaker C: Anyway, so the point is, from what you've just been saying there were a lot of very powerful, some very well known figures from medieval as well as Tudor History who had associations with Chirk.
So we have now come up to.
I guess it's the main gatehouse.
[00:24:50] Speaker A: Right.
[00:24:50] Speaker D: It's the. The only gate. But I wouldn't call it a gatehouse.
[00:24:53] Speaker C: No, it's not really a gatehouse, is it? Because it's built. It's just gate. It's just built into the fabric of the.
[00:24:59] Speaker D: Do you remember what I said when we were around the corner that the front of the castle might have been sort of directly opposite from this particular point?
[00:25:06] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:25:07] Speaker D: And there we think there would have been a barbican, you know, a fortified gatehouse. What you have here is an archway with a Victorian crest there of the Middleton family. That's Pugin's work up there. And another archway underneath. It's a little bit disappointing from approaching here and it gives the impression that the view behind us, which is magnificent.
[00:25:28] Speaker C: I'm coming onto the view.
[00:25:29] Speaker D: Oh, I'm sorry.
[00:25:30] Speaker C: No, no, no.
[00:25:31] Speaker D: It's not the most important thing, but it's not. The really important thing is keeping an eye on the enemy. Down the Ceog Valley. The River Ceog was navigable in the 13th century and the possibility was that Welsh, if they could group themselves would use that river to come and attack the castle. But they never did.
[00:25:52] Speaker C: I see.
So you're telling me is that. Is that whole entrance a Victorian entrance? Has it been punched through the wall or is. Was there always a gate there?
[00:26:04] Speaker D: We think there was probably a gate there and if not it's. It's no later than early 14th century because if the damage was done in 1301 they will have done something pretty quickly to repair an exit and an entrance.
[00:26:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
Okay.
[00:26:18] Speaker D: That isn't all Victorian. Much of what you see inside the castle is however the crest are very nicely put together there Shows the two wolves.
Blythe Riv, the Welsh for blooded wolf. The. The symbol of the Middleton family here. And there's what you call it the motto in veritate triumph I triumph in the truth.
[00:26:47] Speaker C: All right. Okay. And we're going to be. We'll be talking quite bit a lot about the Middletons but I want to just turn around right. And face the view because you did point out, wow, what a view. How far can we see over there? I mean you really do have. It's beautiful countryside and you've got a vista that stretches out way what, miles?
[00:27:07] Speaker D: Yes, easily 40, 45 miles.
The furthest you can see along there rather like a beached whale on the horizon there. That's Helsby Hill over there.
You've got Beeston Castle, that rather shark's Fin sticking up here. So interesting. You've got one castle possibly signaling across to another here, the Peckforton Hills.
On a clear day. And we always say that in Britain, don't we? But on a clear day you can even see to the lower slopes of the Pennines.
Certainly.
[00:27:38] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:27:38] Speaker D: From the roof of the castle. Certain. From tower behind us here, any night of the week you can see over all of Shropshire, a large part of mid Wales as well.
And right in front of you is again the reason for the castle being here in the first place. Guardian of the border.
Can't see it too well at the moment. It's too green, bless it, we have too much rain. But if you look dead ahead of you, do you see a dead tree standing up there?
Go down to the root of that, well, the base of that dead tree and you see a thin line going across the field. It's actually got thin fence posts going across to what is a murky looking lake at the moment. That is the line of Offa's dyke and that is heading north towards.
Well, it joins up with other dykes actually. The dyke path mustn't be confused with the Offa's dyke itself. The offers like path, which I think is about 50 years old now. Wonderful path that actually takes in all the beautiful spots to look at Wales.
[00:28:43] Speaker C: So you can walk. There is a walk right the way.
[00:28:46] Speaker D: Yes. I've done it three times with pupils from school.
Absolutely marvelous. Same time of the year, Easter each time.
One occasion there was so much ice on our tents we couldn't get out of the tent.
Second occasion one of the lads got heat stroke. That's Britain.
[00:29:03] Speaker C: That is Britain for you. Completely, yes. I was up at Alnwick Castle in May this year and I have never had such. I was trying to take pictures. My fingers were like ice blocks. I'm like, this is May we're talking about here.
[00:29:16] Speaker D: It is the northeast.
[00:29:17] Speaker C: Oh, it is the northeast.
[00:29:19] Speaker D: So the natural colour is blue.
[00:29:21] Speaker C: Good. Okay. Well I mean, I have to say, just for this view alone, it's worth coming here because it. Especially on a beautiful day like today with some lovely blue sky, fluffy clouds and the swallows are swooping and diving around us.
Okay, so where do we need to go from here? We're going in. Right. Okay, let's head under the gate.
[00:29:41] Speaker D: But before we get to the gate we have where a drawbridge certainly would have stood.
[00:29:46] Speaker C: Right.
[00:29:47] Speaker D: We don't have any evidence for a moat up at Chirk. We're above the water level table here. So what we would have had under underneath is just a dry ditch. There's a ditch leading off to your right down there towards the garden. That's actually a garden feature of the 18th century.
Did you by any chance notice the big white gates?
[00:30:10] Speaker C: Yes, they're very impressive.
[00:30:13] Speaker D: Five years to make in Wrexham. Wow. They celebrated their 300th anniversary around about COVID time. Originally. They stood just where we were standing there.
[00:30:22] Speaker C: I see. Well, they.
So what I must explain to people listening is if you come today as a visitor and you're driving as you're approaching the castle, way before you actually get to the car park, there's an amazing set of white gates. They're really very ornate and very, very impressive.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: Now then.
[00:30:41] Speaker D: Now we know that the drawbridge was removed just before the English Civil War damage which took place to the east wing which we'll be mentioning shortly. But we can still see the. The runnels here where the drawbridge would have stopped.
[00:30:57] Speaker C: Oh yes, here, yes.
[00:30:58] Speaker D: And you've got left over the. The grooves here up and down which the portcullis would come. And notice we were talking about Stanley earlier on. I suspect this is his work. The very sneakily positioned arrow slits here for attacking anybody coming in here.
[00:31:15] Speaker C: You could dispatch somebody if they came
[00:31:18] Speaker D: into the gate with crossbow. Behind there is very, very small.
[00:31:21] Speaker C: Sure. I mean it's. It's very large, isn't it?
[00:31:24] Speaker D: Yes, it is.
[00:31:24] Speaker C: It's. It's actually a huge gateway. So you could imagine the size of the bridge which would have the drawbridge and massive port palace.
[00:31:33] Speaker D: The very size of a castle is going to be off putting to any attacker.
[00:31:35] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:36] Speaker D: The doors are Pugin 1840s. As is that. That door itself is the 1840s.
[00:31:42] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:31:43] Speaker D: Now, we would have had above us a series of murder holes through which heated sand or hot water would have come through. Not boiling oil. It's far too valuable commodity. You're not going to waste that on the Welsh. Yeah, but we can see those later on. This is again 18th century feature above you is the saloon where Malcolm will be taking you shortly.
[00:32:08] Speaker C: Right.
[00:32:08] Speaker D: But what I would like to show you here is evidence of where people have been on guard here. I. You like to show.
[00:32:12] Speaker C: I was going to ask you. I was. I already had my eye on that. So we've got some marks into the wall.
[00:32:18] Speaker D: That's the sharpening of blades from goodness knows how many generations.
Although I have been known to tell the local children that is the mark of the jerk werewolf.
[00:32:26] Speaker C: Yeah, it does look a bit like that, doesn't it?
[00:32:30] Speaker D: For a While we talk about eccentricities in various families, the Middletons kept a toothless, helpless old wolf at night underneath the. The bridge we've just crossed during the day, we believe it was tethered under this a wolf kept because of the image of the. The wolf on the heraldic device.
[00:33:03] Speaker C: Sam.
So before we go into the Tudor area and we're going to actually go and explore the dungeons. So you were saying we're walking towards the wing which is the oldest.
[00:34:00] Speaker D: That's right.
[00:34:01] Speaker C: Part of the castle now, underneath clock tower, which has been inhabited by swallows, clearly built their little nest.
[00:34:09] Speaker D: Careful.
[00:34:09] Speaker C: Yes, yes, I do see.
[00:34:13] Speaker D: And as you are coming through, look up immediately. Your experience of entering the atom tower is to see a murder hall from above.
[00:34:21] Speaker C: You straight straighten. Yeah. I don't know whether I've seen a murder hole in a small doorway. I've obviously seen them in many, many gate houses, but. So that's very clever.
Oh, gosh, yes. Very medieval.
[00:34:34] Speaker D: Yes. I'll let your eyes accustomed to the
[00:34:36] Speaker C: dark, take my sunglasses off.
[00:34:42] Speaker D: And I'll show you the posh dungeon first.
Do mind your step as you're coming down here, please.
[00:34:48] Speaker C: Oh, so we're. Oh, gosh, we've gone down to the ground floor now. We're heading down through another rather rough stone staircase. Spiral staircase. Down, down, down. Holding onto the ropes for dear life.
Oh, it gets colder, doesn't it?
[00:35:05] Speaker D: It does.
[00:35:06] Speaker C: It's really chilly down here.
[00:35:08] Speaker D: We go through here.
[00:35:09] Speaker C: Okay. It's such a rabbit warren through another passageway in the dark. Stumbling as I go.
And this is the posh dungeon.
[00:35:22] Speaker D: This is the posh dungeon, yes.
It's posh because you've got a fireplace in it.
[00:35:29] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:35:30] Speaker D: You have an air vent going right up to the courtyard there as well.
[00:35:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:36] Speaker D: Now, we do know that prisoners from the Battle of Agincourt in 1415 were decanted from London because the Tower of London, for one, was far too small to hold them all.
The Arundels have been supporters of Henry V. This was an Arundel castle at the time, and we think as many as 15 possibly French prisoners were brought up here. Now, this seems remarkably small to hold 15 prisoners in for the entire day.
But aristocrats, of course, would have the run of the castle and they'd be treated very nicely indeed.
[00:36:11] Speaker C: Yes, indeed.
[00:36:12] Speaker D: And they're just coming here for the evening or just particular room.
Others as well.
So you're actually standing now on the ceiling. Roof. Ceiling of the other dungeon, which is below. And this is the one that gives me concern because the steps are Incredibly well worn.
You tend not to go up and down to a dungeon very often, do you? There's a doorway on it.
I'd like to have your opinion on what you think it might be.
We're going down eventually into the bedrock of the castle.
[00:36:48] Speaker C: Oh, my goodness. So we're going down again. Another.
[00:36:54] Speaker D: Another 15ft or so.
[00:36:55] Speaker C: Another 15ft or so. Clinging onto the rope for dear life.
I really shouldn't have worn these boots this morning.
[00:37:06] Speaker D: Well, you want to come back up as well.
[00:37:08] Speaker C: Notes to self, don't wear heeled boots when exploring castle.
Oh, this is gruesome.
So how big is it, would you say? Let's give folk of dynamics.
[00:37:24] Speaker D: Five foot across, circular room. That which you're standing on is quite lumpy, but it's the sediment of many, many generations which are walking on the top of here. There are three light and air slits coming from here.
[00:37:42] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:37:44] Speaker D: Ventilation serves many features, not just human beings. And this is the bedrock of the
[00:37:49] Speaker C: castle because it's literally carved into the.
Into the base of the castle.
So I see there's an iron hook in the wall which looks a bit threatening. Is this a. Is this a later edition?
[00:38:04] Speaker D: I don't know the date of it. I'm told it's probably early Victorian. Yes, but it's. It'll make a good dog tether as well, because the polished Carloff images, it adds to the.
[00:38:14] Speaker C: It adds to the feel of the place, though, doesn't it?
[00:38:16] Speaker D: I suppose it does. It does it all. Grouch. Really, really.
The cellar here is plugged with, they say, natural stone. It's not plugged at all. That's the natural bedrock they've cut back to. But the story goes that if you remove this stone here, there is a tunnel. There's always a tunnel, isn't there? From here to a village called.
I won't ask you to say.
[00:38:41] Speaker C: No, please don't.
[00:38:43] Speaker D: In where in the early 17th century, a fiddler set off into the quarries there with his fiddle cheese and candles and came as far as he could up here. But the devil didn't want him coming through this hole here. And so he plugged up this entrance here.
[00:39:02] Speaker C: Great, great story.
[00:39:03] Speaker D: And if you believe that, you believe
[00:39:04] Speaker C: that, well, we're going to love a little bit of local legend.
[00:39:09] Speaker D: Have you noticed the temperature yet? It is actually starting to level off.
[00:39:13] Speaker C: Yeah, but it's got an ominous feel, doesn't it? It's just.
[00:39:16] Speaker D: Ah, you said that.
[00:39:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:39:18] Speaker D: Most people come when you're very. Groups, of course, come in here.
[00:39:21] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:39:22] Speaker D: Nothing wrong with this. It's nice. Fine, yeah.
[00:39:23] Speaker C: Lovely, yeah.
It's creepy.
Yeah. Are there any ghost stories at Chirk?
[00:39:30] Speaker D: Well, we have had a couple of people. Almost all I have directly, people showing me strange photographs, digital photographs now, not lens laying over bits and pieces of half shown people standing by the. The toilets.
And some years ago, I was delivering a talk on the castle to a factory group in Chester, actually, and I took. I'd taken a photograph here, roughly.
That area here, completely empty. Yeah.
And when I showed them that, wanted to show them the stone structure, one of the ladies in the front said, what's that? And about that much of a little girl's foot, sock and leg distinctly showing. That's on digital photography that I take myself.
[00:40:21] Speaker C: That's really spooky.
I wonder what a little girl be doing down here, though.
[00:40:26] Speaker D: Exactly.
[00:40:27] Speaker C: In a modern microwave.
[00:40:28] Speaker D: Yes, quite.
[00:40:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
I'm never, ever sorry to say goodbye to a dungeon.
It's like get me out into the sunlight, into the warmth.
[00:40:44] Speaker E: Right.
[00:40:47] Speaker D: You feel the warmth?
[00:40:48] Speaker C: Yes, it's so lovely. We just come back out. Oh, that's so nice. Back out into the courtyard.
[00:40:55] Speaker D: Positively continental.
[00:40:57] Speaker C: It really is. Yes. If you want to appreciate the warmth, go and spend 10 minutes down in the dungeon.
[00:41:03] Speaker D: Well, I must leave you at this point.
[00:41:04] Speaker C: All right. Thank you so much.
Thank you very much,
[00:41:20] Speaker E: Sam.
[00:42:09] Speaker C: Well, having come out of the dungeon and found ourselves in the fresh air of the courtyard again, I'm meeting up with the second of our experts today. That's Malcolm. Hello, Malcolm, and welcome to the show.
[00:42:20] Speaker E: Hello. It's a pleasure to be here.
[00:42:22] Speaker C: Oh, well, thanks for being our guide for the second half and exploring the Tudor, really the Tudor History of Chirk Castle, because we've gone into the early history and how Chirk came to be here and the medieval influence and some of the families chopping and changing with the shifting sands of power.
Love to be able now to explore some more about the Tudor History. And I know there was very one we mentioned in the first part of the podcast, there was a very important family, the Middleton family, who became established here for a few centuries, in fact, very recently.
So you're going to hopefully illuminate that part of the history, because there's one gentleman in particular, I think, who has quite an interesting life. It'd be lovely to learn more about that. But before we do, maybe you could just introduce yourself in full and tell people what your association with Chirk is.
[00:43:16] Speaker E: Well, my name is Malcolm and in my third year as a volunteer at Chirk, I was a novice to history when I retired from education in schools.
History wasn't my thing and so my wife said, get out and find something to do. So I offered my services here and you know what, I haven't looked back really. It's been absolutely eye opening, not just for the National Trust, but to dig and research about history has just been phenomenal for me. So I've really enjoyed doing the genealogy of the Middletons and others, but it's just been fabulous.
[00:43:56] Speaker C: That's wonderful to hear. History has this way of drawing you in and I think anybody listening to this podcast will empathise with what you said there.
So you do research as well as just being. Do you do guiding here?
[00:44:08] Speaker E: Yes, I do room guiding and I also now do tours.
It's a 45 minute tour and that's a voluntary thing. We have a maximum of about 15 people on the tour and we take them through the inside. It's before the castle opens at 12 o', clock, so they get this sort of private tour if you like, 45 minutes. It's only a potted history, but it's really interesting and the visitors really enjoy it. Then they can come around again at the end.
[00:44:37] Speaker C: Lovely. Well, we're going to get a chance to get in before the castle opens in public, so why don't we head inside and maybe we can start to learn a little bit about this Middleton family. And perhaps, you know, one of the things I think, and I just want to clear this up right at the beginning, the Middletons are not related to Catherine Middleton, are they, in any way? Princess of Wales. We need, we need to get that out there, don't we?
[00:45:02] Speaker E: Well, that's right. The National Trust will tell you that there are, there is no connection.
[00:45:08] Speaker C: Do you think differently?
[00:45:10] Speaker E: There was a paint published in 2024 that does give a slight sort of link traces the genealogy from the person who bought the castle, his older brother.
But that has not been clarified or, or the sources of it. It's fine, but it's, it's not official.
[00:45:31] Speaker C: Right, okay. Maybe some distant, distant relative. There are many branches of families, aren't they? Many, many branches.
[00:45:39] Speaker E: So.
[00:45:40] Speaker C: So Malcolm's just left us to go around and get the key. So we're going to wait patiently until this fabulous door opens.
Oh, this is beautiful. Smell of old houses and wood. And we've come immediately into a screens passage and through the screen into what looks to me at a guess, the Great hall of Chirk. Am I right?
[00:46:22] Speaker E: This is actually the Cromwell Hall.
[00:46:24] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:46:25] Speaker E: And so when the castle was purchased in 1595 by Sir Thomas Middleton.
This was one of the rooms that he constructed.
He wanted to turn the castle into a family home. So he purchased it in 1595 on the 14th of August.
And he's outside the castle gates, he's handed over the deeds. He's handed over just under 5,000 pounds, which is about 4,800 it was.
He gets the keys to the castle and he also gets 11 and a half thousand acres of land.
[00:47:02] Speaker C: So he buys it off at the time. Who's he buying? Who's he buys it off?
[00:47:05] Speaker E: St. John Bell of Belstowe. Okay. Because if we go back a little further to the Tudor times, Sir Stanley. Stanley. To the Battle of Bosworth. Yes, yes. So he's finally decided which side he's going to go on.
[00:47:23] Speaker C: Indeed.
[00:47:24] Speaker E: And he decides to go on to the Henry.
[00:47:26] Speaker C: Henry vii. He comes in, decisively swings the battle in favor of Henry. We had an interesting debate with Hugh about that. It was a Ricardian, but. Yes, yes. So he comes on the side of.
[00:47:41] Speaker E: So then the castle becomes a Tudor crown of the Tudor for a.
[00:47:45] Speaker C: So it's owned by the crown at that stage.
[00:47:48] Speaker E: Yeah, for about a century. And then it passes through different hands.
[00:47:52] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:47:53] Speaker E: And including Stanley, who was it 1495 when he met his demise?
[00:47:59] Speaker C: I can't remember. Yeah, it's about. I think it's about 20. Yes, it's in the late mid to late 1490s and then the crown handed
[00:48:10] Speaker E: it all over to different people. And so we get up to about 1580 ish. And at Belstow he decides to sell the castle to Sir Thomas Middleton.
Now it's not sure exactly when the actual castle was purchased because most of it was. Was granted by the crown to different people, but. But not the actual castle itself. That was still owned by them. They didn't buy the freehold, if you like, in current day terms, but Thomas Middleton did. He got the castle, he got the lordship and he got 11,500 acres.
[00:48:48] Speaker C: And so who was Thomas Middleton? Because obviously he was a man of some means by this stage. He could buy a castle. So where did the Middletons come from?
[00:48:57] Speaker E: Middletons are part of the Welsh historical families, as was Henry Tudor. Very similar sort of level, if you like.
And Sir Thomas Middleton's father was in Denbighshire and he had quite a lot of children. Sir Thomas Middleton was the fourth son of his father and Sir Thomas Middleton was. He became a merchant adventurer. So he was born in 1516. 50s.
[00:49:33] Speaker C: Right. So during the reign of Edward VI,
[00:49:35] Speaker E: he was born in Edward VI, he grew up with Mary and then he became of age with Elizabeth.
[00:49:42] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:49:42] Speaker E: So he then.
[00:49:44] Speaker C: So he was an Elizabethan gentleman, really?
[00:49:47] Speaker E: Definitely. He was Tudor. Tudor born, Tudor raised. And his merchant adventurers were Tudor as well, with Elizabeth.
[00:49:55] Speaker C: Now, I've got to stop you there, because this word, merchant adventurers, again, anybody who's read about Tudor History will probably have encountered that phrase.
What exactly is a merchant adventurer?
[00:50:09] Speaker E: Merchant adventurer? Well, Thomas Middleton started as a grocer in London and he worked for a gentleman by the name of Fernando Poyntz, who was a sugar merchant. And he was also apprenticed to him. And then in about the 1575 ish, he goes to Antwerp to facilitate Mr. Point's business. Business in Antwerp.
Then in Antwerp, there was a bit of an uprising with the Spanish, there was a religious persecution and the businesses in Antwerp were told to. They had four years to leave and relocate. So Thomas Middleton came back and started his own sugar factory, sugar house in London in Mincing Lane. And from then, because if you owned a sugar house in England, you were wealthy. And because of that, he then started to invest in other exploits.
[00:51:15] Speaker C: So a merchant adventurer is a merchant, somebody involved in trade who goes overseas to do that trade in London.
[00:51:25] Speaker E: He's now investing in his friends, escapades, his friends Sir Francis Drake and Sir Walter Raleigh. So they were called, I can't say they were called pirateeers. They were called privateers. It was licensed pirating by Elizabeth I and the victims were the Spanish and Portuguese ships.
And then in 1592, Sir Thomas Middleton was made a person who values the customs that come, the goods that land in the ports at the outports. So he was a surveyor of the outpours. So any goods that were pirateeered or came in, they had to be valued. And Sir Thomas Middleton was one of those surveyors.
[00:52:13] Speaker C: Gosh, what an interesting ride.
So he starts off as a grocer, very much in the merchant world, and then takes that over to the continent. Antwerp, of course, being a real centre for commercial trade during the Tudor period.
And there was definitely a company of merchant adventurers in Antwerp, because I remember reading about them when I was reading about Anne of Cleves and her journey to England to marry Henry viii. She was received by, I think, the merchant adventurers, the English merchant adventurers in Antwerp, and I actually went to see their property in Antwerp itself. So you can still see that. So it's really interesting.
But he doesn't stop there, does he? He's clearly got a very good eye for business.
He runs this Sugar house, which actually I'd love to know more about. I've never heard of a sugar house before.
[00:53:06] Speaker E: The sugar house, yes.
Well, the sugar that he was dealing with came from Brazil and the Canaries and it had to be refined.
It went through a huge process and at the end of the process there were different types of sugar, including molasses, which was like the lowest, if you like.
[00:53:27] Speaker C: I see.
[00:53:28] Speaker E: But they were made into sugar loaves. So you might have heard of sugar loaves. I don't know. There's a sugar loaf mountain.
[00:53:33] Speaker C: Well, there's a sugar loaf mountain, isn't there?
[00:53:35] Speaker E: And it's like a cone shape and that's what people would purchase or the wealthy.
[00:53:40] Speaker C: So talking about sugar, it reminds me of bread. So in the Tudor period, of course, there was the sort of the low grade bread for the masses, the coarse bread, and then you had the bread made out of fine white flour, the manchet bread. So it was similar for sugar.
[00:53:56] Speaker E: Very similar, yeah. I think with bread it also depended on where you lived as to what they used to make the bread for Lancashire they would be using.
It would be like a flatbread, I think, in Lancashire. But the sugar, yeah, it was refined and then there were different levels of sugar and the well to do would have the posh stuff, if you like, and then other people maybe not so well off, would have the lower grade, or molasses, cold treacle.
[00:54:26] Speaker C: And you were pointing out that it was a good business to be in because I guess it was, you know, I mean it's been imported from the other side of the world. So there's a lot of money in this and obviously, you know, sugared goods were highly valued at feasts and banquets of the. Of the well to do. So they were prepared to be pay a lot of money, I would imagine.
[00:54:46] Speaker E: That's right. And one of the deciding factors in 1592, he hadn't been a surveyor of the outposts for very long when Sir Walter Raleigh's captured a Portuguese ship called the Madre de Dias, which was absolutely loaded with spices and jewels and ebony wood, it was the most valuable piece ever to land in the country. It landed at Dartmouth.
It's not sure whether Thomas Middleton was one of the valuers, but he could well have been at that stage.
But it was valued at £500,000 in 1592.
[00:55:33] Speaker C: That's an enormous amount of money.
[00:55:35] Speaker E: But what it sparked, because then the merchant adventurers could see all this stuff, the valuable stuff that had come from the East Indies, from Asia, and thinking Maybe we should have some of that.
So a few years later on, we're down to 1599. Queen Elizabeth and they decide to get together to form a company called the East India Company.
And Sir Thomas Middleton, with his brother and a business partner were one of the 101 investors of the East India Company, along with my 12th great grandfather, Sir Robert Lee. He was also an investor.
[00:56:18] Speaker C: How fantastic.
[00:56:20] Speaker E: So that made him a lot of money.
[00:56:22] Speaker C: I was going to say. He must have made a shed load of cash from that. I mean, the East India Company thrived, survived for a couple, two or three hundred years, didn't it?
[00:56:33] Speaker E: Yeah, yeah. There are ifs and buts about the East India.
That's another can of worms, if you like. Yeah, yeah, but, yeah, but he did make a lot of money and of course then he purchased this castle in 1595.
[00:56:46] Speaker C: Right.
[00:56:47] Speaker E: So had it not been for his Tudor upbringing, and let's not forget, because when they changed the march of lordships into English style counties and the marches were sort of abolished, if you like, then it changed from a sort of a frontier fighting castle to now Thomas Middleton, he's in business and this is
[00:57:09] Speaker C: going to be his luxurious family home.
[00:57:12] Speaker E: So Sir Thomas Middleton, he purchased the castle in 1595 to turn it into a family home.
And the accounts of the castle we still have, and I have a copy of them and I'd like to read you part of one of the accounts.
[00:57:25] Speaker C: Please, go ahead.
[00:57:26] Speaker E: This is Mr. Pritchard. He said, I paid the chimney sweeper of St. Martin's parish for sweeping 28 chimneys in the castle on the 7th, 8th and 9th instant five shillings and I don't remember, pound shillings and pens. No, but apparently it's about 26 pounds.
[00:57:45] Speaker C: Wow, lovely. It gives a great. I love those little accounts and it's wonderful you've got, still got the accounts for the castle. It's very, it's very, you know, fortunate to have that information.
[00:57:55] Speaker E: And it goes around to the fine details as well.
[00:57:57] Speaker D: You won't believe it.
[00:57:58] Speaker C: This was his principal seat, was it outside of London, I presume he had London properties.
[00:58:04] Speaker E: Later on he purchased and built an area called Stansted Mount Fitchett.
[00:58:09] Speaker C: Oh, I can't remember.
[00:58:10] Speaker E: Yes, yes, I know. And that was his, his property. That's where he's actually buried as well.
But just after this was all modernized, if you like, or built on the inside of the castle walls, these state rooms, he handed it over to his eldest son, also called Sir Thomas Middleton.
And that was about 1612 when he married his first wife.
[00:58:34] Speaker C: Okay. Well, that's a fascinating introduction to Thomas Middleton. I guess we should just pause and maybe just reflect on the room we are in.
What can you tell us about it?
[00:58:44] Speaker E: Well, originally, when Sir Thomas Middleton bought the castle, he built on the inside of the castle walls.
[00:58:50] Speaker C: So the courtyard got smaller than that.
[00:58:52] Speaker E: The courtyard got smaller. So this is one of the first rooms. This would have been the servants hall and the servants would have eaten at tables along that side of the room and underneath these windows as well, they would have eaten there. But the ale would have been supplied from the other side of the room where there's a screen. You mentioned it when you came in. There was a door there into the butler's pantry and the ale would have been served through that to the servants. And then beyond the butler's pantry and his rooms was the castle kitchen, which is still a kitchen because it's now the National Trustee Room.
[00:59:28] Speaker C: I see. I was going to say because whenever I see screens passage, usually there's three doorways, a three pantry, kitchen in the middle. But not quite like that here. Or have they been filled in?
[00:59:39] Speaker E: They've been filled in. And this screen here, this was put in in the 1840s by Mr. Pugin, who did a lot of work and remodeling in the castle. And the state rooms we put up upstairs as well, they were Thomas Middleton's.
[00:59:54] Speaker C: So I know that a lot of the interiors here are on a. Sadly no longer Tudor, but you do have a long gallery, so it would be maybe nice to go up there and just finish off the story of Thomas Middleton and. And what he did with the rest of his life and his legacy.
[01:00:09] Speaker E: Yeah. And that will take us through some of the other rooms that you get a chance to see.
[01:00:12] Speaker C: Okay, let's.
[01:02:12] Speaker E: So this is the long gallery.
[01:02:13] Speaker C: So here we are. We're in the long gallery. It's a very fine space. I love the wooden floor. A little bit uneven.
Nice. Lovely. Beautifully polished.
[01:02:21] Speaker E: You can obviously hear it's been many rooms, many things. This room.
[01:02:25] Speaker C: Has it?
[01:02:26] Speaker E: Yes. When it was first constructed, I. I don't know if you mentioned, but on the next. Beneath this long gallery was a cloistered walkway.
[01:02:34] Speaker C: That's correct.
[01:02:35] Speaker E: With the arches.
[01:02:36] Speaker C: So this is the building that Charles II put a lot of money into creating after the restoration.
[01:02:43] Speaker E: That's right, yeah. Yeah. And you can see from this print here where the arches are. We are stood about there.
[01:02:52] Speaker C: So we'll look.
[01:02:53] Speaker E: But we're looking the other way.
[01:02:54] Speaker C: I see. So we've got it. We've Basically got an old drawing of the estate.
[01:03:01] Speaker E: That's right. And it was done in 1735.
[01:03:06] Speaker C: You can see the extent of it.
[01:03:08] Speaker E: Yeah, it's huge.
So, yeah, the arches were there, the cloistered walkway was underneath. And then I think what Hugh might have said is in the 1820s, it was filled in.
[01:03:18] Speaker C: Yes.
[01:03:18] Speaker E: To make more room.
[01:03:19] Speaker C: Puget that. Right.
Look at this mound here.
[01:03:24] Speaker E: Well, I was told that that is an optical illusion. It's actually flat. Is it? Yes.
[01:03:30] Speaker C: Right, okay.
It doesn't look flat to me.
[01:03:34] Speaker E: Nor to me.
[01:03:35] Speaker C: Anyway, moving swiftly on.
So where are we with Thomas Middleton? He's bought Chirk now with all of that money that he's made through his commercial activities.
And how much time does he spend here?
[01:03:52] Speaker E: Well, it's his son who's the governor, really. He spends his time here. Thomas Middleton, who purchased the castle, he tends to spend most of his time, from what I've read, at Stanton Mount Fitchett, which is.
[01:04:04] Speaker C: And London, I would imagine.
[01:04:05] Speaker E: Yeah. Because that was where the business was.
[01:04:08] Speaker C: But also he went on to become Lord Mayor of London. Is that right?
[01:04:13] Speaker E: Yes, he did.
And his younger brother, who is Hugh Middleton, he was the jeweller and goldsmith to James I, and when he died in 1625, he carried on to his son Charles I.
But what Hugh Middleton is famous for is bringing fresh water from Hertfordshire to London. And this was in 16, 1609. It's called the New river and it's 38 miles, it's 10ft wide and every mile it drops 5 inches and it comes all the way to Clerkenwell, the basin.
And that's what he's famous for. And it's still there, you can see it on Google Earth.
[01:04:58] Speaker C: Really?
[01:04:58] Speaker E: It's still there, yeah. And that became then the New River Company, which his older brother Thomas also invested in, and also did James I as well. He invested in it.
So Hugh Middleton is famous for that. And on the launch date in 1613, I think it's September, his brother was made declared Lord Mayor of London and he opened the New River Company on that day with his brother.
[01:05:26] Speaker C: So by this time, of course, we're into the Stuart period, but we're talking about an Elizabethan gentleman who made his way fortune during the Elizabethan period, who went on to become Lord Mayor of London.
What a day. You can just imagine it, can't you? The two brothers sort of celebrating their success.
[01:05:46] Speaker E: And of course, Sir Thomas Middleton, his first 53 years were Tudor. Of course, had it not been for the Tudors, he probably would never have bought.
[01:05:55] Speaker C: Yeah, I Mean, I think reflecting on his story, and obviously, as I said at the beginning of this podcast, I'd never heard of Chirk. Until about a year ago, I hadn't heard of Middleton family. But now I've learned more about him from you, I think. Now what I really take away from this is how Thomas Middleton is an example of probably somebody from the middling gentry classes originally, who, through his ingenuity and ability to spot opportunity and take risks, makes the most of the opportunities that are available in Elizabethan England.
[01:06:35] Speaker E: That's right. To become an apprentice merchant in London and to start making your money and
[01:06:41] Speaker C: to then own a house like this, which would previously been something really open to the nobility.
[01:06:49] Speaker E: That's right.
And Thomas Middleton, he died in 1631, and according to his will, he was valued at that time at an income of 8,000 a year, which is what, 1.2 million in current terms.
[01:07:06] Speaker C: Wow. Not bad.
[01:07:07] Speaker E: So he did make a lot of money.
But one of the things that he did do, which I should mention is in 1630, because he spoke Welsh.
He was Welsh origins from Denbighshire, he, together with four others, one of them was Roger Heylin.
They sponsored the production of the first pocket size, if you like, Bible in Welsh. And when you consider at that time, 90% of the people in Wales spoke one language and it was Welsh. So because it was made more affordable for parishes and possibly some families, they could have their own copy and it helped to preserve the Welsh language.
[01:07:48] Speaker C: So he also had an eye on culture and a bit philanthropic.
[01:07:53] Speaker E: That's right.
[01:07:53] Speaker C: In many ways.
[01:07:54] Speaker E: They ordered 3,000 copies to be printed in London and the cost was about 425 pounds. And then you could purchase the Bible between 5 shillings and 7 shillings. But they weren't bound. You had to and bound. And one of the Bibles that he made or that he sponsored is in Church Castle Library today.
[01:08:18] Speaker C: I see. Wonderful. That's fantastic. It's still at home, which is. Which is great.
So is his tomb over in Stansted, Mount Fitchett.
[01:08:27] Speaker E: It is.
[01:08:27] Speaker C: So he has got a tomb that people could actually go and see in the parish church.
[01:08:32] Speaker E: I believe it's in the parish church. We had some visitors last year and when I mentioned that they were from the village. Yeah, it's near Stansted Airport.
[01:08:41] Speaker C: Yes, it is.
[01:08:42] Speaker E: It's not far.
[01:08:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:08:43] Speaker E: And they said, oh, yes, there's the Middleton there and this tomb is in the parish church.
[01:08:47] Speaker C: Right. So we're talking over towards the east of the country, so the other side of the country, really, for Those people who are less familiar with geography, I don't know whether it's Cambridgeshire or I'm not sure which county it's in, but. And we're talking over on that side of England.
And so kind of what happened to Chirk after that? So I do like to kind of get through the end of the story and to bring us up to date.
[01:09:13] Speaker E: Well, it stayed in the family. It was handed down through generations during the English Civil Wars. At the end of the English Civil Wars, I think you may have mentioned, he started off as a son. Sir Thomas Middleton II started off as a Parliamentarian commander and then after the Sultanang ordinance in 1645, he chose to resign his commission and he came back to Wales. And because of the New Model army, becoming more radicalized, if you like, he drifted over to become a royalist and supported Charles Stuart whilst he was in exile.
And then, well, the rest is history, because down the line he's handed to his son, who became a baronet.
Charles, when he came back for the Restoration, was so happy and pleased of the support of the Middletons, he made the son a baronet.
[01:10:07] Speaker C: So they actually became nobility at that point. Although it's the minor, the most minor level that you can reach.
[01:10:14] Speaker E: It is, yes. It's below the five ranks of the peerage.
[01:10:18] Speaker C: Yes.
[01:10:18] Speaker E: But it's above a knight bachelor, so it's a hereditary.
But it only lasted for four generations because Sir William, when he became the baronet, he died early without wife, an issue. So then it went to cousins and so the middle school, all the way down to. Well, till now, really, because it's been held by them all the way down to when the National Trust. Well, the National Trust took it on in 1981, but the Welsh Office took it over in 1979. 78. Sorry. And they did a lot of the work. National Trust continued with the work and the Middleton family still lived here in the private apartments underneath and the Bachelor's Tower. And then in 2003, Lady Margaret Middleton died and the head of the family, then her grandson Guy, I read in the papers that he didn't want to bring his children up in a lot of. Effectively, it's a goldfish bowl.
But they still moved out, but they still had the right to come back and they did so until about a couple of years ago. So in the Bachelor's Tower, there's just an empty bedroom, which you can see, and you get a lovely view of the garden.
And now it was all handed over
[01:11:38] Speaker C: to the National Trust, so it's completely owned and managed by the National Trust and the family. I read in the papers that handed over all the documents as well, so sold all the archive and the documents and artifacts associated with them.
[01:11:51] Speaker E: There's a lot of documents still and they're held at the National Library of Wales, which you can go and see. But a lot of the accounts, a lot of the documentation, the history, even Sir Thomas Middleton's accounts are still there.
[01:12:04] Speaker C: Okay, right, well, that brings us up today. And so perhaps we should just mention, as is our way here on the Tudor History and Travel show is how do people find out about Chirk and what's your visit? What's your opening hours? Are you open all year, for example, or do you have a seasonal timetable?
[01:12:22] Speaker E: The grounds are open and parts of the castle that you've been in today are open all the year.
The staterooms, the ones when we came through into Cromwell hall, that's open most of the year in November. It closes about the 2nd or 3rd of November for preparations to Christmas, which is a big thing in the National Trust. Last Christmas there were 33 Christmas trees.
[01:12:44] Speaker C: Really? Wow. Yes, that does take a long time.
[01:12:48] Speaker E: Yes. And then that opens at the end of November for the Christmas period.
That's open until about the 2nd of January. And then the house part closes for a deep clean till about the 1st or 2nd of March. Yes, and then it opens again.
[01:13:03] Speaker C: Opens again. And I guess, obviously, if people search Chirk, is it.co.uk or National Trust? Oh, it's the National. Of course, it's a National Trust site, isn't it? And then search for Chirk and you'll find out more information about visiting.
So I think with that, we probably concluded our story here. I hope we've inspired you, dear listeners, to put Chirk on your itinerary. As I said, I suspect there are a lot of people just like me who perhaps never heard of this gem before, and hopefully you'll now be able to. If you're heading up to the North North Wales area, you'll be able to put it on your map. So with that, it's just for me to thank you, Malcolm and of course, Hugh, who's left us now, but to thank both of you for being our guides here today.
[01:13:49] Speaker E: It's been a pleasure. It's been a privilege. Thank you.
[01:13:51] Speaker C: Oh, thank you.
[01:13:54] Speaker B: So, as ever, it's a massive thank you from me to our guides, Malcolm and Hugh, who did a wonderful job and so warmly welcomed us to Chirk Castle. And of course, a thanks to the wider staff of Cadoo, who manage Chirk, who made this recording possible.
Well, my friends, that is it for this month. We will be back next month, as ever, in the steamy month of August.
[01:14:21] Speaker C: Well, let's hope so.
Until then, my friends, take care.
[01:14:27] Speaker B: And if you're out and about traveling England this summer, exploring some of the fabulous Tudor locations on offer, then have a wonderful time and I will see you next month.
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of the Tudor History and Travel Show. If you've loved the show, please take
[01:15:03] Speaker C: a moment to subscribe like and rate
[01:15:06] Speaker B: this podcast so that we can spread the Tudor love.
[01:15:10] Speaker C: Until next time, my friends. All that remains for me to say
[01:15:13] Speaker B: is happy time traveling.
[01:15:35] Speaker A: Sa.
